Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: A histogram of salaries given to H1B workers in the software industry

swizec.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 250 posts

Re: Show HN: A histogram of salaries given to H1B workers in the software industry

#71

Post by JeremyMorgan »

ryen wrote: post #44
JeremyMorgan wrote: post #35

I'm wondering where the data came from and how accurate it it is. "In 2012 the Oregon software industry gave jobs to 38 foreign software engineers." Ok so here I am assuming you mean 38 new H1B engineers were hired in 2012. There is no way that could be true, I nearly hired and processed that many H1Bs personally in 2012. I was working with several others with similar or higher numbers. And that's just one company in…

The link shows h1bdata.info as a source, which uses data from here: http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/performancedata.cfm#d...

Yep, and it shows 2,830 H1B applications approved in Oregon in 2012, which sounds more accurate

Re: Show HN: A histogram of salaries given to H1B workers in the software industry

#72

Post by ojbyrne »

negrit wrote: post #19
djb_hackernews wrote: post #12

This gets to the rub of prevailing wage. You are hiring a developer, do you call her an engineer where the prevailing wage is 87k or do you call her a programmer where the prevailing wage is 61k? This type of fraud is difficult to prove and there probably isn't even anyone responsible in the government to verify or investigate issues. EDIT: forgot to mention that the prevailing wage can be determined by salary survey…

There is. Lately, a lot of the top companies sponsoring for visa are getting in trouble because of fraud[1]. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023045275045791674...

"Lately" is a stretch. Looking at that story the fraud occurred in 2008-2011.

Re: Show HN: A histogram of salaries given to H1B workers in the software industry

#73

Post by lnkmails »

There is a privacy issue in government releasing the H1B salary data publicly. If you are a H1b worker working at a small startup, your privacy is pretty much violated. In the interest of long term, I think it is vital that salary information is available publicly but it should also include citizens' salary information so employees can negotiate better. I kinda feel sad for a lot of H1B people and their salaries.

Re: Show HN: A histogram of salaries given to H1B workers in the software industry

#74

Post by zaroth »

JeremyMorgan wrote: post #35

I'm wondering where the data came from and how accurate it it is. "In 2012 the Oregon software industry gave jobs to 38 foreign software engineers." Ok so here I am assuming you mean 38 new H1B engineers were hired in 2012. There is no way that could be true, I nearly hired and processed that many H1Bs personally in 2012. I was working with several others with similar or higher numbers. And that's just one company in…

So looking at the LCA_FY2012 data on the Foreign Labor Cert government website, it purports to show individual records for each H1-B application, listed by employer, job title, wage, etc.

There is an Employer address, and then there are two separate fields for Working Location. So part of the problem is are we looking at where the company is registered, or where the employee is physically working?

A second issue is in the 'LCA_CASE_SOC_NAME' - the job title / category. I found 27 categories which are reasonably related to computer software field, including things like 'Graphics Design', 'Computer and Information Systems Managers', 'Network Systems and Data Communications Analyst', etc. If you filter on just the specific 'Computer Software Engineers, Applications' category you will see much less.

The 2012 file shows decisions made 10/1/2011 thru 9/28/2012. If I look at data for 'Employer State' of OR, and filter on 27 categories which seem computer/software related, then I see 321 records. If I look at data for 'WorkLoc1_State' for OR with the same categories, I can see 1557 records.

You can download it yourself here [1] although it's 70MB and takes several minutes to pull from their servers.

[1] - http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/docs/py2012_q4/LCA_FY...

Re: Show HN: A histogram of salaries given to H1B workers in the software industry

#75

Post by negrit »

shas3 wrote: post #61
djb_hackernews wrote: post #12

This gets to the rub of prevailing wage. You are hiring a developer, do you call her an engineer where the prevailing wage is 87k or do you call her a programmer where the prevailing wage is 61k? This type of fraud is difficult to prove and there probably isn't even anyone responsible in the government to verify or investigate issues. EDIT: forgot to mention that the prevailing wage can be determined by salary survey…

Why is there an implicit assumption that the H1B visa program engenders fraud? A lot of H1B discussions on HN focus on fraud and avoid talking about legitimate talented foreigners because that stuff is not as interesting. H1B discussions on HN are like the crime beat in newspapers. Further, 'H1B' seems like a catchall term for hating on immigrant labor in the software industry. Here are some examples on HN that demon…

The facts 6 of the top 10 H1Bs sponsor are:

- Indian companies

- Using cheap labor

- Paying significantly less then other companies.

- Responsible for almost 50% of all H1B applications

Driving the salaries by immigration is an historical complaint worldwide. HackerNews or not.

Re: Show HN: A histogram of salaries given to H1B workers in the software industry

#76

Post by kd0amg »

negrit wrote: post #75
shas3 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is there an implicit assumption that the H1B visa program engenders fraud? A lot of H1B discussions on HN focus on fraud and avoid talking about legitimate talented foreigners because that stuff is not as interesting. H1B discussions on HN are like the crime beat in newspapers. Further, 'H1B' seems like a catchall term for hating on immigrant labor in the software industry. Here are some examples on HN that demon…

The facts 6 of the top 10 H1Bs sponsor are: - Indian companies - Using cheap labor - Paying significantly less then other companies. - Responsible for almost 50% of all H1B applications Driving the salaries by immigration is an historical complaint worldwide. HackerNews or not.

For more info, see: http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/pdf/H-1B_Selected_Sta...

Re: Show HN: A histogram of salaries given to H1B workers in the software industry

#77

Post by snowwrestler »

arenaninja wrote: post #39

Wow, that disparity between developer and engineer... I'm not an H1B worker, but does this mean I should start calling myself an Engineer?

Sure, but that does not mean potential employers will agree with you.

Re: Show HN: A histogram of salaries given to H1B workers in the software industry

#78

Post by Flemlord »

Coincidentally I just posted an Ask HN question asking how small companies facilitated H1B workers. I run a small company and don't have time to figure the process out. Was wondering how others did it:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9096684

Re: Show HN: A histogram of salaries given to H1B workers in the software industry

#79

Post by unprepare »

shas3 wrote: post #61
djb_hackernews wrote: post #12

This gets to the rub of prevailing wage. You are hiring a developer, do you call her an engineer where the prevailing wage is 87k or do you call her a programmer where the prevailing wage is 61k? This type of fraud is difficult to prove and there probably isn't even anyone responsible in the government to verify or investigate issues. EDIT: forgot to mention that the prevailing wage can be determined by salary survey…

Why is there an implicit assumption that the H1B visa program engenders fraud? A lot of H1B discussions on HN focus on fraud and avoid talking about legitimate talented foreigners because that stuff is not as interesting. H1B discussions on HN are like the crime beat in newspapers. Further, 'H1B' seems like a catchall term for hating on immigrant labor in the software industry. Here are some examples on HN that demon…

Because we have major unemployment inside of the US. We also have the highest ever rate of Computer Science graduates.[1]

Those two combined make the 'need' for foreign tech workers seem very suspicious.

On top of questionable need, there are other facets of the program that are obvious areas of potential abuse (employer reported prevailing wages, employer sponsorship forcing employees to stay out of the competitive job market, etc)

There may be some absolute need for the most talented people other countries have to offer, but there is little evidence that generic 'programmers' or 'analysts' need to be imported into this country when we have 4-5% of college graduates unemployed[2] (thats ~2 million people at least[3])

Or maybe everyone here is a xenophobe

[1] http://www.geekwire.com/2014/analysis-examining-computer-sci... [2]http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d13/tables/dt13_501.80.as... [3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_U...

Re: Show HN: A histogram of salaries given to H1B workers in the software industry

#80

Post by aceperry »

JOnAgain wrote: post #34
negrit wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By law, foreigners should not have a lower salary. When a company sponsor an employee for a visa, the salary is one of the criteria to check for the immigration. They should/have to make sure it match the average salary in the office location. So, if the office is in Boulder, CO instead of San Francisco then it's ok to not pay your employee $100k+. But a least 4 of the top 10 companies sponsoring for visas in the US…

tldr; turnover of visa holders vs. non-visa holders should be used as the metric more than wages. Significantly lower turnover of visa holders suggests they're being exploited since those who can quit and find another job do. But this doesn't work. For many people on H1B's the visa and greencard sponsoring has tremendous value. The do depress wages, but it's because of the risk around the visas. If you have an H1B, y…

"To completely stereotype"

I wouldn't characterize that as a stereotype as much as a data point. It's very good info and insight, thanks for that.

Post reply on HN