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I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

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Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#71

Post by DanBC »

sebular wrote: post #52
DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

Wow, what a disappointing response. Talking about bombs at the airport is not the same as having literature in your carry-on with the word "bomb" on it. The last novel I brought on a flight talked extensively about bombs, should I have tossed it in the garbage before going through security? When people like you rationalize every individual curtailment on civil liberties without considering the bigger implications and…

Can you honestly not see the difference between having a book that has the word bomb in it and having a set of 80 hand-written cards with the words "bomb", “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound" (among others) on them, and handing those cards to security agents?

Any reasonable person knows that those words will cause alarm in security agents. Why chose to handwrite those cards and then hand them over to those agents?

The ACLU articles all make it sound like Arabic language is the problem. But if he had French language flashcards with those words on he'd have got a similar result.

The ACLU does not mention the content of the flashcards in their articles. The ACLU has an illustration with words like "sun" and "dog". This is borderline deceptive. Arabic flashcards without words like "bomb" would have been fine. Any language flashcards with words like "bomb" would not have been fine.

> Question nothing, blame the victim. Superb critical thinking.

Interesting that you accept the ACLU story without question -it obviously appeals to your biases- and are affronted when someone presents the court case. Critical thinking indeed.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#72

Post by mcguire »

gaius wrote: post #37
coldtea wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like Scotland, Ireland plays the victim card very well to extort money from the English. Yeah, if only the British haven't raped their freedoms, they'd be playing the victim totally virtually.

Look up the Barnett Formula and the West Lothian Question. The history of the UK is the history of the exploitation of the English.

Absolutely. The English should have kicked the Scots and Northern Irish loose a long time ago. Hell, they missed their chance last year.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#73

Post by droope »

Beltiras wrote: post #7

I'm a bit worried about my trip to the US in the spring. I'm going to make a point of having a hair cut, not carrying any suspicious books, cultivate a super submissive nature against authority figures (of which I carry a well-deserved suspicion) and practive my TSA-smile. Shouldn't have to be that way, but I really don't want to give any indication I am anything but White Bread.

You should do that. I do that, and it's the only way to go through airports unchallenged I think, that and wearing a suit

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#74

Post by chrisbennet »

zaroth wrote: post #67
mikeash wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make the case that extra scrutiny is legitimate here. But being actually arrested has specific requirements which clearly were not met.

Technically I think he was never arrested. He was detained until the unit arrived to evaluate him. After that it took 30 minutes to release him with no charges. Part of the time he was handcuffed. The handcuffing was absolutely unnecessary but not sure if it's mandatory protocol when making the detention? $25k and a good story later I think Nick made out. Edit: $25k went straight to the ACLU. I apologize, Nick did no…

$25K to his lawyers you mean.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#75

Post by yourad_io »

zaroth wrote: post #70
yourad_io wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source for these notable facts? > It never occurred to Nick to put the cards away before going through security screening? Oblivious beyond belief. Obnoxious beyond belief. You're saying "he should know better and hide the perfectly legal thing that he was doing". In the same line of thought, if you're learning Arabic online without going through Tor, you're asking for it. Right? EDIT: Found the source[1]. The fu…

Well, at least I think it's relevant to understand the full context of what happened. Remember, TSA's job is to spot outliers, oddities, and flag them for review. I have zero love for TSA, but I think they did their job here. There were 80 cards total. At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller. Guilty of not censoring? No you missed my point entirely. I am suggesting th…

> At least 10 were bizarre words that would get you arrested if you handed to a bank teller.

Come on. Half of these are basic vocabulary and the other half are contextually relevant. Grab a random newspaper; you'll likely find 90% of them somewhere.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#76

Post by DanBC »

mikeash wrote: post #63
DanBC wrote: post #41

Don't talk about bombs in an airport. While the reaction from security staff is stupid you have to be a fucking idiot to think that hand-written flashcards with words like... > “bomb,” “terrorist,” “explosion,” “attack,” “battle,” “kill,” “to target,” “to kidnap,” and “to wound.” ...are not going to arouse suspicion, especially among low-paid staff with little training. https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets…

You can make the case that extra scrutiny is legitimate here. But being actually arrested has specific requirements which clearly were not met.

Yes, my original post did not make that clear.

While I think that saying "bomb" in an airport is dumb I certainly agree that what happened to him was way too much.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#77

Post by kghose »

zaroth wrote: post #60
hownottowrite wrote: post #45

Summary of Agreement (not judgement): 1. Plaintiff received $25K (directed to ACLU legal and subject to tax) 2. Philadelphia PD must communicate the following for a period of months: "Investigative detentions may be made only on reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct and any arrest must be based on probable cause. A referral by TSA agents is not grounds for arrest unless an officer makes a judgment ofprobable cause…

Other notable facts: recent travel to middle east, flash cards included words like "terrorist", "explosion", "bomb", "to kidnap", etc., didn't follow basic screening process guaranteeing an elevated inspection (left large electronics in bag), had the cards in his pocket and handed directly to the TSA agent. As soon as someone arrived who had the necessary pay-grade to release this guy, he was released. Sorry for miss…

Finally, some one with additional details I was waiting to hear. If they hauled everyone learning Arabic off the false positive rate should be sky high. I wonder, just wonder, if this person was an "activist". You know, someone who tries to go positive on sufficient features of the detector to pass the threshold.

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#78

Post by mcguire »

Beltiras wrote: post #7

I'm a bit worried about my trip to the US in the spring. I'm going to make a point of having a hair cut, not carrying any suspicious books, cultivate a super submissive nature against authority figures (of which I carry a well-deserved suspicion) and practive my TSA-smile. Shouldn't have to be that way, but I really don't want to give any indication I am anything but White Bread.

Exactly how often do you go out of your way to aggravate police, customs and immigration officials in other countries?

Re: I Was Arrested for Learning a Foreign Language. Today, I Have Some Closure

#80

Post by cle »

mathetic wrote: post #16

> "Do you know who did 9/11?" Taken totally aback, I answered: "Osama Bin Laden." Then she asked me if I knew what language Osama Bin Laden spoke. "Arabic," I replied. "So do you see why these cards are suspicious?" she finished. As horrific as the situation, I think we can all enjoy the humorous nature of the conversation above. Lack of shame and intelligence is surreal.

The lack of intelligence displayed here is a big reason why I don't place much of the blame on the TSA agent or police officer. There is something deeper that is the actual root cause of this behavior.
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