Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#71

Post by S4M » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 6:29 PM UTC

seiji wrote: post #62

Domenic_S wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to consider housing cost as a % of your salary, not as a % of itself. For example, say your rent is $1000 and your salary is $100k. A 10% increase of rent is $100; a 1% salary increase is $1000. Net gain $900.

Excellent point except for the math mistake! A 10% rent increase in $1000/month rent make the new rent $1100/month, so your total additional cost is $1200/year, not $100/year! Then , on top of all that, your salary increase is taxable. A $1,000 salary increase will only get you about an extra $600 per year. So, you're certainly not coming out ahead. My actual numbers are a $300/month rent increase (which totals $3,60…

Slightly OT, but I am wondering what would happen if the landlords were tax at 100% (or even more) on the rent they perceive. I have this weird dream where it wouldn't be profitable to speculate on real estate, and real estate would become a commodity just like cars.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#72

Post by cylinder » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 6:30 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #15

Why are tech salaries so low? Especially from these companies with large profit margins and huge revenue per employee numbers. It seems like engineers have captured almost nothing of the fruit of their labors.

That's what I was thinking. $120,000/yr in SF or really anywhere in California is firmly middle class if you're trying to raise a family.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#73

Post by GreenGiant » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 6:34 PM UTC

cylinder wrote: post #72

simonsarris wrote: post #15

Why are tech salaries so low? Especially from these companies with large profit margins and huge revenue per employee numbers. It seems like engineers have captured almost nothing of the fruit of their labors.

That's what I was thinking. $120,000/yr in SF or really anywhere in California is firmly middle class if you're trying to raise a family.

I can't agree with the "anywhere in California" part. Cost of living ranges dramatically across the state. There are plenty of communities in CA where land and housing is still relatively cheap (especially in Nor Cal). These aren't necessarily in or neighboring larger cities, but nonetheless, they do exist.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#74

Post by pessimizer » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 6:35 PM UTC

thejdude wrote: post #36

untog wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bear in mind that the US is severely out of whack in terms of work/life balance. It's one of the things I find most difficult about living here - when I first arrived I had 10 days vacation a year. I currently only have 15. And don't forget to factor in healthcare costs and the like. Money certainly isn't everything.

Yes, but healthcare is a few 100 bucks a month, which we pay too, only for us it's mandatory by government. Vacation sounds like a real problem, but it seems like you could circumvent that by going freelance and just taking off x days a year between projects.

Germany and the US do not pay the same amount for health care (regardless of who is responsible for actually sending the check.)

http://www.statista.com/statistics/215502/per-capita-health-...

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#75

Post by davidw » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 6:36 PM UTC

djb_hackernews wrote: post #67

nostrademons wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Value capture is related to competition, not productivity. You capture value when there are few other alternatives in your space, and so your counterparties have to pay your price or go without. If engineers aren't capturing much value, it's because they're fungible, and there are many other people on the market who can do the same thing. Engineers that do have very specialized skills - say, compiler design experts o…

If engineers are fungible, and there are many other people on the market who can do the same thing, then why have a guest worker program like H1B?

> If engineers are fungible, and there are many other people on the market who can do the same thing, then why have a guest worker program like H1B?

If you think it through, one reason is pretty obvious: jobs can also go to those people in wherever they happen to be born, in many cases. Letting them come to your country makes things better for everyone. Remember, the labor market is not a zero-sum game, a "lump of labor": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#76

Post by thetrb » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 6:39 PM UTC

Domenic_S wrote: post #53

seiji wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My rent is going up by 10% next month at lease renewal time. My yearly review/raise increase was ~1%.

You have to consider housing cost as a % of your salary, not as a % of itself. For example, say your rent is $1000 and your salary is $100k. A 10% increase of rent is $100; a 1% salary increase is $1000. Net gain $900.

The salary in this example is per year, the rent is per month. So actually a 10% rent increase is $1200 per year and a 1% salary increase is $1000 per year for a net loss of $200.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#77

Post by victorantos » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 6:40 PM UTC

thejdude wrote: post #19

simonsarris wrote: post #15

Why are tech salaries so low? Especially from these companies with large profit margins and huge revenue per employee numbers. It seems like engineers have captured almost nothing of the fruit of their labors.

That's low to you? Wow. Just wow. Over here in Europe (or at least Germany) salaries are incredibly uniform (doesn't really matter if you suck or get as much done in a day as others in 1-2 weeks; if your bugs get constantly reopened or your code is rock-solid), and most people seem to get maybe 35-50k€ after graduation (diploma/master's degree).

I partially disagree. I know people, IT contractors(.NET) that got 490 euro/day in Germany

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#78

Post by ryandrake » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 6:40 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #48

fooaway wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low? They seem high! Is this total comp or just base?

These numbers seem low for just base. $120K in NYC for a senior engineer is low - anecdotally I see it more at $150-170K nowadays. I don't think there's a good reason why a capable, senior engineer would entertain a total comp under $200K these days in NYC - and I know many companies here that play with these numbers. I think the fact that these are labor cert numbers definitely skews the data downwards.

You know, whenever we get one of these salary articles on HN, there's always one or two people chiming in with vague anecdotes like "That seems really low! Most engineers I know are making $200K+!" or "Company X pays engineers $250K LOL" despite the fact that most responses (backed up by averages from anonymously-reported salaries like Glassdoor) seem to agree that $90-$140K is about average in SF and NYC.

Not that I don't believe you, but I'd love to, one day, actually see a real, specific engineering job posting with a published (or unpublished) base salary offering over $200K. Just one.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#79

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 6:41 PM UTC

wyuenho wrote: post #54

ryanSrich wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the U.S. a Software Development(dev, designer, etc.) job is a middle class role. What is a developer in china? Lower class? What is a middleman class job then? EDIT: Should probably define middleman class then...I guess I'd have to say, being able to purchase a house, pay off student debt in less than 10 years, afford to have children, buy a car, go to events and maintain a relatively comfortable lifestyle.

Software dev is definitely a middle class job in China, but in HK, it's only considered marginally better than clerical work. Labor in Greater China for any job other than the most exploitative ones (finance, sales, insurance, legal, upper management) are treated like dirt in general. Don't even get me started on the hours and the lack of benefits and incentives.

An entry level dev in Beijing from Beida/qinghua can easily pull in 20k rmb a month in Beijing (if they don't go abroad for grad school). There is competition for good devs that is pushing up salaries yearly. They are hardly diaosi.

Devs in HK aren't valued outside of banking; Taiwan is similar (many are coming to mainland to make more money, go figure).

India, oddly enough, seems much more competitive to me in terms of dev salaries.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#80

Post by untog » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 6:42 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #57

untog wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bear in mind that the US is severely out of whack in terms of work/life balance. It's one of the things I find most difficult about living here - when I first arrived I had 10 days vacation a year. I currently only have 15. And don't forget to factor in healthcare costs and the like. Money certainly isn't everything.

10 days vacation was one of the biggest reasons I didn't move to the US when I got my H-1B visa. Company policy was that vacation was a reward for tenure, rather than a negotiable component of compensation. Best they could do was offer 20 days for the first year, and only the first year. It was an asinine policy if you ask me. An immigrant is exactly the type of person who would want to take a holiday back home to se…

Agreed, I spend most of my vacation days visiting family back home - it's been a long time since I've had an actual holiday, lying on a beach in the sun.