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Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

sacbee.com

71–80 of 126 posts

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#71

Original story - http://www.sacbee.com/static/sinclair/sinclair.jquery/baybri... It's a pet peeve of mine when it's really a story about a story.

I wish I could read it, but it's completely broken on my browser (Safari on iPad). It only shows the title, the aforementioned top bar, and the footer; the rest is blank.

I had my hopes up this time since, after all, the URI contains the word "/static/"; but then I just realized it also appends the word "/sinclair.jquery/" later on...

http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just searched on Delta.com. If you book a week ahead, the price for a round trip ticket in First/business class ranges from $6,000 to $11,000, so spending 10k in a month is "normal".

Why would you need to book a week ahead? And why would you go first/business class? It's a huge project, there's got to be scheduled client side meetings, and those should be scheduled months in advance.

Sure, they're scheduled months in advanced, but they're moved, re-scheduled and canceled, days in advance. Also the agenda, and thus who has to be there, changes all the time. The meeting may have been scheduled 6 month in advance, but that doesn't mean that you get to find out that you have to be at that meeting more than a couple of days in advance, if you're lucky,

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#73
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone underbids the next contractor by $250 million on a job they've never done before, you're supposed to politely laugh them out of the room. Most of the time, you can't, at least not for government projects. Because of procurement laws and rules (designed, among other things, to allegedly be transparent and to provide accountability), a government body is required to accept the lowest bid from the contracto…

Odd. I've been involved in a few government bidding processes in Europe, and detailing past projects was always a major part of what we'd get graded on.

It's part of your grade, but it is rarely an overriding factor in my experience. Lots of experience plus slightly higher price will beat little experience and slightly lower price, but it won't beat little experience and very low price.

I was recently involved in a bid for a government contract where we got perfect scores on all factors, but still lost the bid to a small company with little to no relevant experience, but who claimed they could to the job for a third of the price.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#74
post #45

"As delays dragged on, Caltrans approved paying the contractors an additional $6.5 million to boost efficiency and quality, and to catalog the work." WTF... I know a lot of us here are contractors. Tell me the last time you got paid MORE because you weren't doing your job.

Not because we weren't doing our job, but for example I've been involved in cases where we've had to say "I'm sorry, but there is no way we can hit the deadline without more hours and external resources", and client says "fine, here's some more money, just make sure you hit the deadline"

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#75

Having studied in China, and worked in construction, all I can say is that this smells, far and wide, like there was some kickback somewhere in this process. I'm guessing on the Chinese soil end of things. From first hand experience, I know it happens on American soil all the time as well, but, from what little I saw in 1999 the Chinese culture of kickback in China takes it to a whole new level. Also, can somebody ex…

If there were kickbacks given to California public officials they will end up in jail. I'm sure their finances are under considerable scrutiny.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#76
post #45

"As delays dragged on, Caltrans approved paying the contractors an additional $6.5 million to boost efficiency and quality, and to catalog the work." WTF... I know a lot of us here are contractors. Tell me the last time you got paid MORE because you weren't doing your job.

Any major IT consultancy company. Especially those working for the government. But the modus operandus is standard even for small agencies. You get to bid for a project. If your bid is anywhere near realistic, there's no way you'll ever get it, because the competition will bid way, way lower. So you put in a bid that you know will never get the project completed and/or will reduce quality well below what will ever be…

I wonder if these kind of contract arrangments are just a consequence of lack of communication. You have to agree on a single cost because it is impossible to audit and check everything the contractor does. But the client will inevatably have to check everything anyway but in a delayed fashion. So why not assume from the outset that the client is just another part of the team and must sign-of on everything every single day. Give the client complete access to all data about the project. With sufficient communication the contractor could prove they are working correctly and the client justs pay them for the time and materials they use.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#77

What a fiasco. This story just keeps getting bigger and bigger. So many lessons to be learned about a flawed bidding and construction process. And from what I see, it's immune to politics. No party can take the higher ground. Public sector graft and private sector lying, cheating and thieving, both need to be stopped and big, small government, or running government like a business doesn't seem to help. Instead, worki…

Sounds like exactly what I would have recommended when the sub-prime market caused Wall Street's collapse ... people should have gone to jail but instead received performance bonuses. Executives who directed the bridge construction seem to have landed cushy non-government jobs instead, but the level of corruption and blame-shifting amazes me in both cases.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weld is really the key difference here. For welds to be structurally sound, and for them to work in the calculations that have been performed for the structural integrity of the structure, they have to meet a certain standard. These welds didn't. The company said that they themselves would state whether those standards were met. So this would be more akin to a computer chip manufacturer, where every Nth chip is f…

Yep. The big reason that the convenient approximations (lies) we use in mechanical and civil engineering work is that it is expected that the implementer of our designs (elaborate lies) doesn't use the wrong parts--there are exhaustive specifications on things as boring as bolts and threads and welds specifically to ensure that the behavior they exhibit is within the realm of what the designer expects. It's nice to s…

[deleted]

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#79

I feel that the title is misleading. Caltrans faulted by practicing terrible project management. If someone underbids the next contractor by $250 million on a job they've never done before, you're supposed to politely laugh them out of the room. Edit: for the benefit of those now arriving, the title and link have been changed.

> If someone underbids the next contractor by $250 million on a job they've never done before, you're supposed to politely laugh them out of the room. Most of the time, you can't, at least not for government projects. Because of procurement laws and rules (designed, among other things, to allegedly be transparent and to provide accountability), a government body is required to accept the lowest bid from the contracto…

To alleviate this somewhat, at least in Federal contracting, "best performer" can be chosen over "lowest bid" and often is if the project will be put at risk by an inexperienced contractor, or somebody trying to slip in on the cheap and provide substandard contract completion and/or try to squeeze the money out of the government later.

Re: Troubled welds on the Bay Bridge

#80

It seems like the author is trying to make the assertion that all sorts of poor decisions were made - it'd be helpful to have a comparison to other similar projects, in order to make that determination. Otherwise, these could be completely routine issues for all I know (as a layperson). If you took any software engineering project, and described it by detailing all the mistakes in isolation, it would look like a comp…

The whole thing was a mess http://www.sacbee.com/2013/04/12/5338065/supplier-of-bay-bri... The bolts made by an Ohio company broke and they maybe a danger to the bridge,

Are they a danger? (That article is from 2013, and my understanding was they'd made progress on the bolt issue...)
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