Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

grist.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 98 posts

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#71

Post by dbarlett »

oh_sigh wrote: post #56
jrochkind1 wrote: post #33

This was actually proposed by by Christopher Alexander in _A Pattern Language_ originally published in 1977. He cites an MIT study from which he may have gotten the idea. http://books.google.com/books?id=hwAHmktpk5IC&&pg=PA110 I'm actually surprised it hasn't been done before now, we've had the technology for a while. (It's not clear from the brief write-up if this one is a private company or municipal service). The…

Do you happen to remember the number of this pattern in the book? I read A Pattern Language by flipping to random pages, and following various trails of references, but I don't think I've come across this one yet...

#20 MINI-BUSES http://www.jacana.plus.com/pattern/P20.htm

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#72

Post by bradleyjg »

rajat wrote: post #15

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/10/the-ille... But those are not hip tech entrepreneurs...

I used to live off Flatbush in Lefferts Gardens, those vans were fantastic. If they could somehow take hold there are a lot of other routes that would work well.

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#73

Post by peeters »

cameldrv wrote: post #54
mikeash wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to be universal. I've seen it in places from SF to DC to small-town France to Beijing: the bus a second choice that you only take when the train doesn't go where you need it to go. I'm still trying to figure out why , though. Despite sharing that opinion myself, I still can't quite figure out what the concrete reasons are. It seems to come down to: subway routes are much easier to figure out, stops are much…

Trains are faster if they're grade separated because they don't have to wait for traffic. Not waiting for traffic also makes them more reliable, especially during rush hour. If you can't rely on the schedule, you have to put padding into your schedule, which makes them effectively even slower. Trains are also faster because they have lots of doors and the passengers are waiting at the same level as the doors, and you…

The grade separation is a big thing. When I compare taking the bus in Toronto to taking the bus in Ottawa, which has (some) dedicated transitways for buses, complete with dedicated overpasses and bridges, there's a world of difference.

For an example, follow the roads in this satellite imagery: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4116853,-75.6640352,489m/data...

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#74

Post by ForHackernews »

mikeash wrote: post #26
jasondemeuse wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>do what really works for most people -- buses Do buses really work better for most people? I live in Chicago and it seems like most people I know (including me) ride the trains unless it can be avoided.

It seems to be universal. I've seen it in places from SF to DC to small-town France to Beijing: the bus a second choice that you only take when the train doesn't go where you need it to go. I'm still trying to figure out why , though. Despite sharing that opinion myself, I still can't quite figure out what the concrete reasons are. It seems to come down to: subway routes are much easier to figure out, stops are much…

Interesting article about that here: http://usa.streetsblog.org/2012/06/21/explaining-the-psychol...

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#75

Post by ericd »

hershel wrote: post #13
untog wrote: post #11

Now this is interesting, when compared to Uber and the like. I imagine it requires a large ridership to be worthwhile (otherwise you're basically dispatching large cabs, but charging less), but it's a fascinating concept for large cities. I imagine there are downsides though - if you're using it to get to work then surely your journey time is variable?

According to a simulation in[1], If employed at scale, such system would have a mean order time of 5 minutes,a mean wait time of half a minute and a mean ride time of 1.5x of a direct trip. [1] http://www.floating-content.net/~esa/pub/files/jokinen-fists...

Neat. What's the variance? Being late 20% of the time despite leaving a decent amount of time before the mean wouldn't be great...

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#76

Post by tuukkah »

jks wrote: post #58
jerguismi wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, the service is not private but public transport project, and it isn't viable business. The trips are covered by the tax money paid by you (and me). There is no way a taxi trip could cost $5 using that kind of vehicle. You also have to factor in the operational costs and note that the cars are Mercedez Benz vans with wifi etc.

Well, yeah, it's the Helsinki Regional Transport Authority getting around another branch of government (it's the ELY-keskus that gives out taxi permits, part of the state instead of the city). I agree that there is no way this can be a profitable business now, but if they can get a sufficient user base it could become one.

The Kutsuplus van operators are required to have either a taxi permit or a public transport permit, which is also granted by ELY but much easier to get: http://www.ely-keskus.fi/en/web/ely-en/trafik

Ajelo Oy has projected that the service would be sustainable at 100 vans and profitable at 1000 vans.

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#77

Post by greglindahl »

mostly_harmless wrote: post #28

I believe that the big shipping companies (UPS, Fedex), have algorithms specifically designed around dynamic route planning like this. I wonder if it would be feasible for one of them to create a spin off business for just this purpose.

ArcGIS provides an API that does this, which is apparently used by all of the major shippers. They occasionally show up at hackathons and give out free low-usage accounts.

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#78

Post by tuukkah »

osmala wrote: post #64

This is public service that is subsidized by goverment and its not profitable and its goal is to help elderly get around in the city. It has some additional stops beyond normal bus stops, and it has far more limited service area than normal busses in the Capital. For instance the air port is outside the service area. Its also a nice complementary service for public transport on uncommon trips that would take too much…

It's true that it's currently not profitable but in a beta phase of sorts. With the limited number of vans in operation, it doesn't make sense to spread out to the suburbs outside the first ring road.

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#79

Post by tuukkah »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #33

This was actually proposed by by Christopher Alexander in _A Pattern Language_ originally published in 1977. He cites an MIT study from which he may have gotten the idea. http://books.google.com/books?id=hwAHmktpk5IC&&pg=PA110 I'm actually surprised it hasn't been done before now, we've had the technology for a while. (It's not clear from the brief write-up if this one is a private company or municipal service). The…

(It's not clear from the brief write-up if this one is a private company or municipal service).

This is a municipal service ordered by Helsinki Regional Transport Authority HSL but developed and operated by a private company Ajelo Oy. At this point the scale is too small to be profitable.

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#80

Post by andrewf »

mradamh wrote: post #52
mikeash wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to be universal. I've seen it in places from SF to DC to small-town France to Beijing: the bus a second choice that you only take when the train doesn't go where you need it to go. I'm still trying to figure out why , though. Despite sharing that opinion myself, I still can't quite figure out what the concrete reasons are. It seems to come down to: subway routes are much easier to figure out, stops are much…

I'm sure I am in the minority, but avoid bus trips wherever possible because I get horribly motion sick on them. I few years ago I had a job with a 20 minute bus commute and it was torture. I'd break out in a cold sweat every time and stagger off the bus feeling light headed and dizzy. This does seem to be an inherent problem for me with road vehicles. I experience a similar problem riding in the back of a car. I'm n…

Have you tried medication? (Took me years to realize that feeling sick on an hours-long coach ride need not be inevitable)
Post reply on HN