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Keurig Will Use DRM In New Coffee Maker

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Re: Keurig Will Use DRM In New Coffee Maker

#71

Post by esw »

zimbatm wrote: post #34
jcampbell1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I waste 7 pounds of petroleum driving to work, and .01 lbs from my morning k-cup. My time has value, and I am not going to waste it greenwashing.

I guess value is relative. I prefer good coffee and preparing it is part of the experience. It's like writing this comment on HN, what value does it bring to you ?

Yeah. I have a nice burr grinder, and I loved the ritual of preparing coffee every morning. Then I had a baby. The Keurig machine we got as a Christmas present two years before got pulled out of the closet, and we've been pod people ever since.

Re: Keurig Will Use DRM In New Coffee Maker

#72

Post by Consultant32452 »

mikeash wrote: post #39
HarryHirsch wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This practice isn't what copyright was intended for when it was written into the constitution. The idea is that copyright is a time-limited monopoly to make money of immaterial property, it mustn't serve to lock out the secondary market for printer cartridges and coffee.

The way it should work is, Keurig should be able to do whatever they want in terms of DRM on their hardware, and other companies should be able to do whatever they want in terms of reverse engineering that DRM to produce compatible products. I don't know if that's how the law actually is, but it sounds like it might be.

With the DMCA it is illegal for competitors to reverse engineer the DRM to produce compatible products.

Re: Keurig Will Use DRM In New Coffee Maker

#73

Post by ghostDancer »

sliverstorm wrote: post #52
mikegioia wrote: post #4

I actively try to dissuade people from buying Keurig machines, or any "coffee pod" machine and this is just another reason why. Aside from the fact that the coffee is watery, the pods just add such an unnecessary amount of garbage to something that doesn't need to generate any waste. I think the concept is cool but re-usable pods are the way to go. This is stupid of Keurig.

to something that doesn't need to generate any waste. What do you consider used coffee grounds? Product?

In Spain a company is using them to make a kit for having your own mushrooms at home and then reuse it (again) as compost : http://www.resetea.es/#!el-kit/cgmn (sorry only in spanish and the google translate wasn't working)

Re: Keurig Will Use DRM In New Coffee Maker

#74

Post by mcherm »

giarc wrote: post #5

Keurig is free to do what they want, just as a consumer is free to choose whichever coffee maker they want. Maybe this will blow up in their face, or perhaps given their market share it will all work out.

Ah, but the question is whether the consumer is free to choose whichever coffee maker REFILL they want.

The ethical and legal question is whether there's a good reason why Keurig should be allowed to forbid anyone else from manufacturing compatible refills (if they want to) or forbid customers from buying these refills (if they want to). As far as US law is concerned, do you think that prohibiting the manufacture of these compatible refills will "promote the progress of science and useful arts"? Because that is what Keurig is (effectively) claiming by relying on copyright law in this way.

Re: Keurig Will Use DRM In New Coffee Maker

#75

Post by pessimizer »

magic8ball wrote: post #58

To play's devil advocate and stop the circle jerking, let's do an intellectual exercise and try to think about why this might not be the dumbest decision ever. Maybe it could be more than just a ploy to increase sales of 1st party cups. Maybe it's about Quality control. I grew up playing a lot of Nintendo games. SNES. N64. Gamecube. Wii. There was one thing I noticed about it. Nintendo always made the best stuff. The…

>freedom to use 3rd parties does not always give a better user experience.

This is either a straw man or only very pedantically correct.

Is anyone here claiming that 3rd parties always give a better user experience? If not, it's a straw man.

If you are actually referring to the "freedom to use 3rd parties" not giving a better user experience - the user experience is either going to be equivalent or better, because freedom to use a 3rd party != must use a 3rd party.

Re: Keurig Will Use DRM In New Coffee Maker

#76

Post by normloman »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #22
mikegioia wrote: post #4

I actively try to dissuade people from buying Keurig machines, or any "coffee pod" machine and this is just another reason why. Aside from the fact that the coffee is watery, the pods just add such an unnecessary amount of garbage to something that doesn't need to generate any waste. I think the concept is cool but re-usable pods are the way to go. This is stupid of Keurig.

I waste 7 pounds of petroleum driving to work, and .01 lbs from my morning k-cup. My time has value, and I am not going to waste it greenwashing.

Then use a reusable keurig pod and get both the benefits of fast coffee and less waste.

Unless, of course, your time is so valuable that you can't even spare the 15 seconds it takes to wash the reusable pod.

Re: Keurig Will Use DRM In New Coffee Maker

#77

Post by AUmrysh »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #72
mikeash wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way it should work is, Keurig should be able to do whatever they want in terms of DRM on their hardware, and other companies should be able to do whatever they want in terms of reverse engineering that DRM to produce compatible products. I don't know if that's how the law actually is, but it sounds like it might be.

With the DMCA it is illegal for competitors to reverse engineer the DRM to produce compatible products.

It's illegal for them to reverse engineer (and reimplement) hardware DRM for interoperability, but software DRM circumvention is protected by DMCA, only for the purpose of interoperability.

Re: Keurig Will Use DRM In New Coffee Maker

#78

Post by Spearchucker »

SDGT wrote: post #56
Spearchucker wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Lavazza machine from AEG. The coffee is amazing, so the pods don't bother me anymore than my printer cartridges that I can only buy from Epson. It's a hoop I jump through because the perceived value obtained is worth it. Conversely, I drive a 3.0 CSL because I won't drive something with a chip in it that I can't control.

M3 CSL? Jesus you have my dream car. Unless you have an e9. If that's the case, my jealousy just went through the roof.

It's an E9. It's one of the 500 right-hand drive variants exported to the UK so has the stock E9 bumpers (pity) and soundproofing (happily).

Re: Keurig Will Use DRM In New Coffee Maker

#79

Post by jcampbell1 »

pessimizer wrote: post #66
jcampbell1 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referencing the "actively dissuade" part. I don't mind if people adopt environmentalism as a religion where all trash is a sin, I just don't want to be a part of it. I want to think about environmental impact broadly and go after the high impact items. Talking about K-Cup trash is a distraction from what is important.

So you're saying that you're going to stop burning so much petroleum to get to work, and to do that you have to ignore anything that you do that has a lesser impact on the environment? I can't say that I understand the single-mindedness, but congratulations on the electric car or the not commuting so far or whatever. Unless what you're saying is that you're going to ignore everything that pollutes less than the impor…

Yes. I use logic and reasoning and order of magnitude estimation to think about environmental impact.

I also think people who obsess over polyethylene grocery bags are bad at math. Unfortunately, many of these people manage to influence public policy to my inconvenience. It is religion, not science.

Re: Keurig Will Use DRM In New Coffee Maker

#80

Post by jcampbell1 »

normloman wrote: post #76
jcampbell1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I waste 7 pounds of petroleum driving to work, and .01 lbs from my morning k-cup. My time has value, and I am not going to waste it greenwashing.

Then use a reusable keurig pod and get both the benefits of fast coffee and less waste. Unless, of course, your time is so valuable that you can't even spare the 15 seconds it takes to wash the reusable pod.

The needy baby is the bigger issue, not the time. She also likes pressing the button on the machine.
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