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We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

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Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#71

Post by epaladin »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #56
aasarava wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is the hack that keeps us from constantly taking our luxuries for granted? Just as with the traffic situation, how often do we find ourselves complaining about having to do the laundry or the dishes or vacuuming or even heating up something for dinner -- all fairly small and easy tasks thanks to the help of technology, which took much more time and labor in a previous generation? Yes, it's true that the compl…

I was given some brilliant advice by an older gentleman once: he said to find 1 or 2 things that enjoy more than most people, to let yourself really enjoy those things, and be modest in all other things - and then you'll really be happy, but be able to give more to those less fortunate. For instance, he loved music, and he splurged to have a high-quality system in his car. And he focused on really enjoying that, cut…

That sounds like a pretty good approach to it. It might become a bit of a problem if it involves a regular investment, so choice and scale have to depend on means available for that to really work...

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#72

Post by jaimebuelta »

vehementi wrote: post #52
throwaway812 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think your facts are a bit off and reflect HN insularity. The median 33% household income ("middle class") in the US is $30,000 to $62,500 ( household ). Even if you are the sole earner in your household, it is still unlikely that you make less than $62,500. If you do make less than that, ask for a raise. If you don't make less than that, or your combined household income is more tha…

> The median 33% household income ("middle class") in the US is $30,000 to $62,500 (household). What does this even mean? Median 33%? Median is 50% How can it have a range? Are you saying the 33th percentile household income in the US ranges from 30k to 62.5k depending on the state?

This means that the 33% of Americans that are "in the middle" (between the 33% with less income and the 33% with most) are in the range of 30K to 62K

(Or so. I understand the data)

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#73

Post by Ntrails »

rjknight wrote: post #39
yitchelle wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if you are trolling or not. Maybe I have read your comment incorrectly. There are some people in this world that are working in their job because of circumstances beyond their control. Just look at the folks in North Korea or most parts of Africa. Those of us who have "luxurious" jobs did have a choice, those other folks don't.

I'm not trolling. I'm saying that software developer lifestyles only look good because of the terribly poor conditions many other people work in, both in developed economies and in more obviously poverty-stricken places. We're lucky not to be those people, but to me "luxury" implies either greed or wastefulness - that as software developers we're getting some kind of unreasonably good deal from the world. I don't thi…

> to me "luxury" implies either greed or wastefulness

I would not read the same thing into that word, which may be a regional thing? To me luxury and comfort are not the same as excess.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#74

Post by logfromblammo »

hnal943 wrote: post #43
beachstartup wrote: post #21

technology workers complaining about recruiters is analogous to young, attractive people complaining about people hitting on them constantly. it sets off the same b.s. detectors in my brain. to me, it's really just a childish and transparent way of bragging. even reasonable people slip into these modes when they are faced with an abundance of opportunity, most of which they don't want or feel are beneath them.

Yeah, but I think the problem with cut-and-paste recruiter spam is that it's not really an opportunity. Most of the "offers" I get don't match my skillset and would not result in a job even if I pursued them. They simply increase the noise in the channel and don't add any value to anyone.

This is further compounded by the likelihood that the jobs advertised may be sham postings that are only being spammed out to you to fulfill legal requirements for restricted visas held by imported workers.

For your own amusement, try responding to one or two, and see what happens.

It isn't quite so posh when you discover that the job opportunities constantly streaming into your inbox don't actually exist.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#75

Post by CaptainSwing »

I think that it is important to separate our understanding of relative exploitation/privilege from notions of structural exploitation/privilege.

two points on this.

firstly, luxury is relative. As workers (I know its unpopular in the US, but I, as a developer, would happily call myself, and other developers 'working class' as long as we are handing over the products of our labor for a wage) we are not earning as much money as our bosses expect to make from the product of our labour, therefore however relatively luxurious our work environment and living standards, we must remember that we are still being exploited. The recent revelations about the silicon valley wage cartel (http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/01/15/silicon_valle...) show one of the ways in which our wages are kept artificially low.

Secondly, not a critique of your sentiment, but an addendum, there are certain senses that our 'luxurious' jobs are particularly precarious. When labour costs increase the two methods that bosses/capitalists use to maintain a profit are a) employing workers who will accept less and b) automating the work previously don by workers.

More and more we are competing globally for employment, This applies to all industries to some extent (if wages for electronics manufacture get too high in China they will move to Thailand, etc), it is even easier to relocate soft wave developer jobs, as there aren;t the same demands for the movement of physical resources, building new factories, etc.

combine this with the fact that we are constantly creating the 'machines' that will replace us. For example, designing complex web sites is much easier and takes much less work using django, for example, than frm scratch, but that is because django is replacing work that was previously done by workers.

These two methods of keeping labour costs down often combine in the form of deskilling. If we make django do all the tough technical bits we can hire a less experienced worker for less $$.

tl;dr Yes we have 'relatively' luxurious jobs, no that doesn't mean we its not in our interests to get rid of the wage-relation, with all its ridiculous contradictions in an age of plenty as we live in.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#76

Post by nilkn »

seanccox wrote: post #60

Let's be careful with that term, "luxury". You're a well-paid and comparatively comfortable wage slave, but just because you don't have to labor in a mine or a burger joint doesn't mean you are experiencing luxury. Luxury is what these people are living: http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/ We would all do well to remember that the first 85 people on that list have as much wealth as the 3.5 billion poorest people in t…

Luxury is relative, is it not? Working in a posh office with a very comfortable salary, very lenient management, and extensive benefits straight out of college is a hell of a lot nicer than laboring in a mine in your 40s, struggling to put food on the table, having no advancement opportunities whatsoever, and rather than getting health care benefits actually suffering health-wise due to the intensity of the labor.

Of course, nobody I know works in a mine. But my job is still generally a bit nicer in most ways than that of all of my friends outside of technology. I realized this when it occurred to me that I worked half as much as my friend who is a physician in residency and yet I actually am paid more. That's kind of ridiculous, isn't it? Of course, he'll get a big pay bump when he finishes residency--but that'll be several years from now, and if things keep going the way they are, my pay will jump up a lot as well.

So let me rephrase that: seasoned developers in Silicon Valley are paid as much or more than licensed family physicians. To find the doctors who beat us squarely in pay, you have to start looking at the radiologists and the surgeons.

A few years ago, I was the math equivalent of the aimless college poet who tugged at his heart for guidance but felt nothing. The poet is now working for nearly minimum wage and I'm now making more than my parents combined. Let's face it: I lucked out. Not as much as Mark Zuckerberg and other billionaires, but relative to most people--definitely.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#77

Post by beachstartup »

hnal943 wrote: post #43
beachstartup wrote: post #21

technology workers complaining about recruiters is analogous to young, attractive people complaining about people hitting on them constantly. it sets off the same b.s. detectors in my brain. to me, it's really just a childish and transparent way of bragging. even reasonable people slip into these modes when they are faced with an abundance of opportunity, most of which they don't want or feel are beneath them.

Yeah, but I think the problem with cut-and-paste recruiter spam is that it's not really an opportunity. Most of the "offers" I get don't match my skillset and would not result in a job even if I pursued them. They simply increase the noise in the channel and don't add any value to anyone.

the problem with going to bars is that everyone who hits on me is not really my type. most of the 'offers' i get are from fatties and uglies or losers, and would not result in a relationship even even if i decided to sleep with them. these people simply increase the noise at the bar and don't add value to anyone.

oh my god it's just like, so annoying, you know? faux outrage

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#78

Post by clusterfoo »

rjknight wrote: post #12

No, we do not have luxurious jobs. Other people have really really shitty jobs. Software developers are just getting the kind of relative pay and conditions improvements that a much larger number of people took for granted in the 60s and 70s. It's everyone else who is fucked.

The fact that we have careers decent enough that we are not dehumanized on a daily basis or expected to work in depressing, unhealthy, sometimes dangerous conditions for just enough pay to scrape by should not be seen as luxury; it should be the norm.

And considering the value developers bring to companies, and comparing our salaries to other positions, developers in general are underpaid. It's perfectly reasonable to demand more perks.

But I guess this is why we have a lower class: to keep the worker bees on their toes. "See how good you have it? You could end up like one of them."

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#79

Post by beachstartup »

logfromblammo wrote: post #74
hnal943 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but I think the problem with cut-and-paste recruiter spam is that it's not really an opportunity. Most of the "offers" I get don't match my skillset and would not result in a job even if I pursued them. They simply increase the noise in the channel and don't add any value to anyone.

This is further compounded by the likelihood that the jobs advertised may be sham postings that are only being spammed out to you to fulfill legal requirements for restricted visas held by imported workers. For your own amusement, try responding to one or two, and see what happens. It isn't quite so posh when you discover that the job opportunities constantly streaming into your inbox don't actually exist.

these are all symptoms of an industry that finds its workers in high demand, which is the root of the issue we're discussing. people are complaining about being in demand.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#80

Post by ForHackernews »

allochthon wrote: post #46
throwaway812 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think your facts are a bit off and reflect HN insularity. The median 33% household income ("middle class") in the US is $30,000 to $62,500 ( household ). Even if you are the sole earner in your household, it is still unlikely that you make less than $62,500. If you do make less than that, ask for a raise. If you don't make less than that, or your combined household income is more tha…

By any reasonable definition, being well-off means being able to take out a mortgage on a house, afford occasional vacations to other parts of the world, invest in the stock market, support a family, put your kids through college, give to different charities, save for retirement, all in addition to helping family members in need, which one would do under any circumstances. A software developer might be able to do the…

Hint: Don't live in California. There are plenty of well-paid software jobs in places like Boston, Chicago, Northern Virginia, Atlanta, Florida, Austin, etc.

They might not have the glut of "hot" startups that Silicon Valley does, but they have much more reasonable cost of living.

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