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We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

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Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#51

Post by [deleted] »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #35
sergiotapia wrote: post #28

Yes we make more money, but we also take our work with us and the stress that comes along with mentally taxing work. It's 11pm and I might be thinking of a problem at work I've been tangling for for the past 4 days. A gardner or a construction worker leaves work and _leaves work_, you feel me?

And your'e stacking that up against the stress the gardener or construction worker has of losing their job and not having a million other options, or not being able to support medical insurance for their family because of what they earn? Even excluding that, having worked in a fairly brain dead job I found the stress of 9 hours a day doing something that dull WAY more stressful than being able to use my mind but bein…

[deleted]

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#52

Post by vehementi »

throwaway812 wrote: post #30
Touche wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. We enrich "business guys" with connections to billion dollar exits while we ourselves make middle-class or slightly upper-middle class wages. Meanwhile anyone willing to take out the loans to put themselves through Dental school will eventually make more than we do and if they have the motivation to open up their own practice, much more than we do.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think your facts are a bit off and reflect HN insularity. The median 33% household income ("middle class") in the US is $30,000 to $62,500 ( household ). Even if you are the sole earner in your household, it is still unlikely that you make less than $62,500. If you do make less than that, ask for a raise. If you don't make less than that, or your combined household income is more tha…

> The median 33% household income ("middle class") in the US is $30,000 to $62,500 (household).

What does this even mean? Median 33%? Median is 50% How can it have a range? Are you saying the 33th percentile household income in the US ranges from 30k to 62.5k depending on the state?

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#53

Post by afterburner »

throwaway812 wrote: post #30
Touche wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. We enrich "business guys" with connections to billion dollar exits while we ourselves make middle-class or slightly upper-middle class wages. Meanwhile anyone willing to take out the loans to put themselves through Dental school will eventually make more than we do and if they have the motivation to open up their own practice, much more than we do.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think your facts are a bit off and reflect HN insularity. The median 33% household income ("middle class") in the US is $30,000 to $62,500 ( household ). Even if you are the sole earner in your household, it is still unlikely that you make less than $62,500. If you do make less than that, ask for a raise. If you don't make less than that, or your combined household income is more tha…

The median household income is $55,000, with a median of 1.5 earners at that level. So, it seems to me quite likely an earner makes less than $62,000. Also, the median personal income is about $30,000, although this includes everyone older than 15.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_S...

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#54

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

Nursie wrote: post #45
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An experienced software developer earns perhaps double the national average wage in the UK, depending on where they are in the country (it may be considerably more than double, it is never less than comfortably above the average). Real wages are below their early 70s peak by about 14% right now. By my calculation that puts an average programmer in a considerably better position than most people would have been seeing…

Pay in the UK is awful for a lot of middle-earning jobs like ours. The US and Australia pay far more. I basically had to go contract when I got back here so that I could match the money.

Really?

I live in Glasgow. Our sysadmin moved to Australia (Sydney) - close to tripled his salary but dropped his standard of living because of higher costs out there. I hear that a lot from people moving out there - great salaries, costs a fortune to live.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#55

Post by [deleted] »

beachstartup wrote: post #21

technology workers complaining about recruiters is analogous to young, attractive people complaining about people hitting on them constantly. it sets off the same b.s. detectors in my brain. to me, it's really just a childish and transparent way of bragging. even reasonable people slip into these modes when they are faced with an abundance of opportunity, most of which they don't want or feel are beneath them.

[deleted]

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#56

Post by TallGuyShort »

aasarava wrote: post #49
spindritf wrote: post #5

Yes, working from home is great. It is a luxury. Working at your own pace is also nice. But working "on the Internet" means you're also comparing yourself to the best, brightest, and driven. Then it seems like you're achieving maybe 10% of what you seemingly could be, because you're setting your own goals based on what you see out there. It's like getting stuck in traffic. You can point out that I'm sitting in climat…

So what is the hack that keeps us from constantly taking our luxuries for granted? Just as with the traffic situation, how often do we find ourselves complaining about having to do the laundry or the dishes or vacuuming or even heating up something for dinner -- all fairly small and easy tasks thanks to the help of technology, which took much more time and labor in a previous generation? Yes, it's true that the compl…

I was given some brilliant advice by an older gentleman once: he said to find 1 or 2 things that enjoy more than most people, to let yourself really enjoy those things, and be modest in all other things - and then you'll really be happy, but be able to give more to those less fortunate. For instance, he loved music, and he splurged to have a high-quality system in his car. And he focused on really enjoying that, cut back in the rest of his life and gave more to charity, and still felt like he was "living the life".

I've done the same thing. I love watching a good movie at the end of the day, and I love visiting my home town. So I bought myself a nice TV, I take regular trips back home, and I feel like I have it made all the time. I drive a very modest vehicle and live in a very modest place, but I really appreciate how I live now and try to focus the rest of my resources on others.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#57

Post by rjknight »

vonmoltke wrote: post #44
rjknight wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trolling. I'm saying that software developer lifestyles only look good because of the terribly poor conditions many other people work in, both in developed economies and in more obviously poverty-stricken places. We're lucky not to be those people, but to me "luxury" implies either greed or wastefulness - that as software developers we're getting some kind of unreasonably good deal from the world. I don't thi…

> We're lucky not to be those people, but to me "luxury" implies either greed or wastefulness - that as software developers we're getting some kind of unreasonably good deal from the world. I don't agree with that definition of "luxury", and I think there are many others who also do not. Luxury is about comfort and choice, not greed and wastefulness.

Google[1] reckons that "luxury" is:

the state of great comfort and extravagant living. "he lived a life of luxury" synonyms: opulence, luxuriousness, sumptuousness, grandeur, magnificence, splendor, lavishness, the lap of luxury, a bed of roses, (the land of) milk and honey

This says that luxury is about great comfort, something beyond the ordinary. The aristocrats of Downton Abbey live in luxury, the average software developer does not.

[1]: https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=cr&ei=rmQPU_OnKaW_ygOph4GAD...

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#58

Post by khuey »

throwaway812 wrote: post #30
Touche wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. We enrich "business guys" with connections to billion dollar exits while we ourselves make middle-class or slightly upper-middle class wages. Meanwhile anyone willing to take out the loans to put themselves through Dental school will eventually make more than we do and if they have the motivation to open up their own practice, much more than we do.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think your facts are a bit off and reflect HN insularity. The median 33% household income ("middle class") in the US is $30,000 to $62,500 ( household ). Even if you are the sole earner in your household, it is still unlikely that you make less than $62,500. If you do make less than that, ask for a raise. If you don't make less than that, or your combined household income is more tha…

Software engineers are concentrated in major metropolitan areas, often high cost ones (e.g. the SF bay area), so comparisons to the national median income are not necessarily accurate.

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#59

Post by Nursie »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #54
Nursie wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay in the UK is awful for a lot of middle-earning jobs like ours. The US and Australia pay far more. I basically had to go contract when I got back here so that I could match the money.

Really? I live in Glasgow. Our sysadmin moved to Australia (Sydney) - close to tripled his salary but dropped his standard of living because of higher costs out there. I hear that a lot from people moving out there - great salaries, costs a fortune to live.

That much is true - the cost of living is enormous. But the standard of living is pretty enormous too.

Houses are pokey and weird over here after that...

Re: We Have Luxurious Jobs but We Are Not Aware of It

#60

Post by seanccox »

Let's be careful with that term, "luxury". You're a well-paid and comparatively comfortable wage slave, but just because you don't have to labor in a mine or a burger joint doesn't mean you are experiencing luxury.

Luxury is what these people are living: http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

We would all do well to remember that the first 85 people on that list have as much wealth as the 3.5 billion poorest people in the world: http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/01/23/the-85-rich...

That is luxury – a lifestyle only attainable by an infinitesimally small number of people, and one that they protect with the might of laws they author, politicians they buy, and force they command. It's important to keep sight of where the upper limits of wealth are, lest you get confused about your class or with whom you have the most in common.

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