Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011 • Hacker News Board

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#71

Post by greenyoda » Mon, Sep 09, 2013, 4:19 AM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #34

devx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point. More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much cl…

I would agree. However I think it is more important to impeach those in charge of the intelligence community first and then work up to the President. I am not sure the President is in the loop here. As far as I can tell he gets most of his info in these areas from the same sources that we do.

The President definitely doesn't get his information from the same sources we do. He has daily access to top-secret information.

"The President's Daily Brief (PDB) ... is a top-secret document produced each morning for the President of the United States."[1]

And he can definitely read the legal decisions that come out of the FISA court. There's no way that a FISA court decision declaring an NSA program unconstitutional wouldn't get to the President's desk.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Daily_Brief

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#72

Post by einhverfr » Mon, Sep 09, 2013, 4:45 AM UTC

greenyoda wrote: post #71

einhverfr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree. However I think it is more important to impeach those in charge of the intelligence community first and then work up to the President. I am not sure the President is in the loop here. As far as I can tell he gets most of his info in these areas from the same sources that we do.

The President definitely doesn't get his information from the same sources we do. He has daily access to top-secret information. "The President's Daily Brief (PDB) ... is a top-secret document produced each morning for the President of the United States." [1] And he can definitely read the legal decisions that come out of the FISA court. There's no way that a FISA court decision declaring an NSA program unconstitutio…

I am aware of this. I was however noting that Obama himself admitted to learning about many of the NSA's programs through the press. It isn't beyond possibility that he had no personal knowledge of court procedings and what was asked of the FISC.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#73

Post by prawn » Mon, Sep 09, 2013, 6:07 AM UTC

graycat wrote: post #49

prawn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May be more terrified of the next 9/11 and criticism that he didn't do enough to stop it. (I'm not condoning their decisions.)

Yes, of course, but now for Obama that possibility of blame for not stopping another terrorist attack can seem less important than the actual blame, now, for the NSA spying on US citizens, that is, will so seem to Obama if enough people raise heck over the NSA spying. If I were the POTUS, then I'd have my staff draft a short statement and use it to address the nation. The main point would be that the US actually is v…

I wonder if it's possible that the NSA did have awareness of the Boston bombing in advance but couldn't stop it preemptively without giving up the info that they were tracking anything and everything. Remember the security detail looking guys Reddit excitedly found when scouring photos? Perhaps they wanted to catch the bombers in action but failed?

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#74

Post by dhimes » Mon, Sep 09, 2013, 5:39 PM UTC

DerpObvious wrote: post #61

dhimes wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. And also I was pissed at Bush's (whom I also voted for) disregard and disrespect of the international community in the Iraq invasion. Which turned out to be based on incorrect intelligence after all. So I voted for Obama, and again when Romney started to sound like Bush. Sheesh. So disappointed. Honestly, I am bothered by the NSA stuff but part of my empathy goes out to him and 'allows' that perhaps he is act…

> Maybe there arose an enormous threat and he was desperate to stop it. Even an existential threat - an actual one like another nation-state pointing world-ending numbers of nuclear weapons at our country - is less harmful than dismantling the mechanisms of the state internally. What could even possibly justify this kind of thing?

I suspect that when you are the one in the hot seat, your thinking is something like, "Wow, if I don't stop this we can lose tens of thousands of lives. I'm not going to be the one to let that happen. We'll debate the true meaning and value of freedom later, but right now I'm listening in."

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#75

Post by graycat » Wed, Sep 11, 2013, 12:17 AM UTC

prawn wrote: post #73

graycat wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course, but now for Obama that possibility of blame for not stopping another terrorist attack can seem less important than the actual blame, now, for the NSA spying on US citizens, that is, will so seem to Obama if enough people raise heck over the NSA spying. If I were the POTUS, then I'd have my staff draft a short statement and use it to address the nation. The main point would be that the US actually is v…

I wonder if it's possible that the NSA did have awareness of the Boston bombing in advance but couldn't stop it preemptively without giving up the info that they were tracking anything and everything. Remember the security detail looking guys Reddit excitedly found when scouring photos? Perhaps they wanted to catch the bombers in action but failed?

The real situation was much worse than that: The Russians nicely enough told us that the guy was a dangerous wacko. So, the Boston police investigated and then dropped the matter. The NSA could likely have had a really tough time using their electronics to get a lead as solid as that the Russians gave us. Net, the NSA electronic data is just not very effective against such a wacko; our police departments aren't either.

Maybe the hope of the NSA is catching another UBL planning another 9/11 and do so by grabbing cell phone data. Well, the terrorists know now to assume that telephones and e-mail are not secure; knowing that, the NSA will be even more useless than now.

The NSA is just a bureaucracy gone totally out of control because no one with authority wants to say "Stop" and then risk being blamed the next time something goes "Boom!". Any reasonable evaluation of costs and benefits would say that the NSA should be cut way back, say, to their original mission of arranging secure communications for the State Department. Then, maybe let them try to listen in on efforts to make loose nukes. Otherwise, save the money and the US Constitution.