Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011 • Hacker News Board

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#31

Post by espeed » Sun, Sep 08, 2013, 8:01 AM UTC

wyclif wrote: post #28

espeed wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cheney administration was openly deceitful, as it were, a brazen set of liars fronted by an idiot stooge. This turn of events - particularly given Obama's rhetoric and the expectations of him - seems in many ways much more insidiously dangerous. That's one way to look at it. Another is that the policies were put in place under Bush/Cheney, and they are being exposed under Obama. Obama ran on transparency, and thi…

Obama ran on transparency, but that turned out to be a total lie. Blaming Bush/Cheney for Obama's failures is just a way for the people who voted for him to assuage their hypocrisy. The reality is that the Obama admin is far more like Bush's admin, and is contiguous with it in terms of policy.

I am not what you would call an Obama advocate.

But just like watching what people do can reveal more than listening to what people say, observing the effects in a complex system can reveal more than focusing on the mesmerizing flap of its butterfly wings.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#32

Post by devx » Sun, Sep 08, 2013, 8:24 AM UTC

wyclif wrote: post #29

Obama's presidency has been disastrous for the privacy of American citizens: “The [surveillance] Court documents declassified recently show that in late 2011 the court authorized the NSA to conduct warrantless searches of individual Americans’ communications using an authority intended to target only foreigners,” Wyden said in a statement to The Washington Post. “Our intelligence agencies need the authority to target…

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point.

More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much clearer that he's acting as a dictator with unlimited powers that needs to be overthrown.

He has no regard for the Constitution, no regard for human rights, no regard for due process, and no regard for international law. Not doing it would just send a message to other psychopaths running for president the next time, that it's okay to blatantly lie to the electorate, and then do stuff at least as bad as he did. Impeach him.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#33

Post by wyclif » Sun, Sep 08, 2013, 8:29 AM UTC

forkandwait wrote: post #19

protomyth wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pointing out what was written which was utter BS. As to his honesty or morality, history will have some interesting comparisons versus his predecessor and successor.

Oh -- I do believe he had a better marriage than Bill Clinton. Who cares? He was still a laughable fuckup as president.

Obama is at least at the same level on the fuckup and laughability meter, esp. wrt the international community.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#34

Post by einhverfr » Sun, Sep 08, 2013, 8:55 AM UTC

devx wrote: post #32

wyclif wrote: post #29

Obama's presidency has been disastrous for the privacy of American citizens: “The [surveillance] Court documents declassified recently show that in late 2011 the court authorized the NSA to conduct warrantless searches of individual Americans’ communications using an authority intended to target only foreigners,” Wyden said in a statement to The Washington Post. “Our intelligence agencies need the authority to target…

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point. More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much cl…

I would agree. However I think it is more important to impeach those in charge of the intelligence community first and then work up to the President.

I am not sure the President is in the loop here. As far as I can tell he gets most of his info in these areas from the same sources that we do.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#35

Post by einhverfr » Sun, Sep 08, 2013, 8:57 AM UTC

espeed wrote: post #24

triplesec wrote: post #6

particularly galling pull-out para: "Together the permission to search and to keep data longer expanded the NSA’s authority in significant ways without public debate or any specific authority from Congress. The administration’s assurances rely on legalistic definitions of the term “target” that can be at odds with ordinary English usage. The enlarged authority is part of a fundamental shift in the government’s approa…

The Cheney administration was openly deceitful, as it were, a brazen set of liars fronted by an idiot stooge. This turn of events - particularly given Obama's rhetoric and the expectations of him - seems in many ways much more insidiously dangerous. That's one way to look at it. Another is that the policies were put in place under Bush/Cheney, and they are being exposed under Obama. Obama ran on transparency, and thi…

Indeed, it is worth noting that some of Obama's campaign promises have actually been fulfilled, albeit despite his best efforts....

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#36

Post by charonn0 » Sun, Sep 08, 2013, 8:57 AM UTC

kylec wrote: post #11

segacontroller wrote: post #7

Why is this not perjury? Kinda serious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02ea3dBJAuI&feature=youtube_... >Perjury, also known as forswearing, is the willful act of swearing a false oath or of falsifying an affirmation to tell the truth, whether spoken or in writing, concerning matters material to an official proceeding.

Was he under oath to tell the truth at that press conference? If not, it's not perjury, just ordinary lying.

> If not, it's not perjury, just ordinary lying.

Even so, such a lie when delivered by PotUS might constitute a high crime and/or misdemeanor.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#37

Post by charonn0 » Sun, Sep 08, 2013, 9:05 AM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #34

devx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point. More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much cl…

I would agree. However I think it is more important to impeach those in charge of the intelligence community first and then work up to the President. I am not sure the President is in the loop here. As far as I can tell he gets most of his info in these areas from the same sources that we do.

The NSA sets itself up as the Fourth branch of government but keeps it a secret even from the original three?

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#38

Post by Sagat » Sun, Sep 08, 2013, 9:07 AM UTC

devx wrote: post #32

wyclif wrote: post #29

Obama's presidency has been disastrous for the privacy of American citizens: “The [surveillance] Court documents declassified recently show that in late 2011 the court authorized the NSA to conduct warrantless searches of individual Americans’ communications using an authority intended to target only foreigners,” Wyden said in a statement to The Washington Post. “Our intelligence agencies need the authority to target…

Impeach him. I'm sorry if you voted for him and you think it's a too "radical" move, but I really think it's actually a very "proportional" and reasonable move at this point. More think he should be impeached if he goes to war with Syria despite a No vote from Congress and despite UN saying no, and breaking international law. I think the NSA thing is at least as big as that, and if he does both then it's that much cl…

Obama is not solely responsible for everything that goes on in the US government. The president's power is limited. However, since he is the figurehead of the state, it's only natural that citizens have the impression he is the mastermind behind every single negative action of the gubment.

I'm highly disappointed with Obama but he is hardly a psychopath. All those decisions you find repellent are the result of pressure from third parties or his own underlings. Impeaching Obama would be counter-productive. It would just create instability and would not solve the underlying problems that led him to make those decisions you hate.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#39

Post by Sagat » Sun, Sep 08, 2013, 9:14 AM UTC

frank_boyd wrote: post #23

> “The government says, ‘We’re not targeting U.S. persons,’ ” said Gregory T. Nojeim And again, the foreigners' right to protection of their privacy is not even up for discussion. I'm tempted to say this is un-american. But thinking it over, it seems to actually have become the new "american". In any case, this kind of attitude can not come from nation that sees itself as "the best country in the world".

Americans believe their country has been chosen by God: ordained by divine powers to be the leader of the world. So it's not surprising that they view the rights of foreigners with contempt or at the very least lack of interest.

"Un-american" supposedly means against freedom (and a range of other positive buzzwords) which is pretty hilarious given their behavior.

Re: Obama administration had restrictions on NSA reversed in 2011

#40

Post by yzhengyu » Sun, Sep 08, 2013, 9:22 AM UTC

charonn0 wrote: post #37

einhverfr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree. However I think it is more important to impeach those in charge of the intelligence community first and then work up to the President. I am not sure the President is in the loop here. As far as I can tell he gets most of his info in these areas from the same sources that we do.

The NSA sets itself up as the Fourth branch of government but keeps it a secret even from the original three?

It will not be the first organ of the state to morph into "a state within the state" though it is surprising to see it happening in a liberal democracy.

Or perhaps we were encouraged to look away from the curtain all this time.