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Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#71

Post by hkmurakami »

jayfuerstenberg wrote: post #5

Japanese society and education can be very demanding of young people. I live in Japan and have never seen so much brainwashing on the topic of the unemployed or uneducated. Besides the term hikikomori there is also NEET (Not Employed, Educated or in Training). Another shocking thing is whenever an upstanding pillar of the community is shown on TV they go out of their way to mention he is a "正社員", a full time employee…

Japan is so societally uniform that many of the views in society are "the normal people" and "the not normal people".

IMO it's unhealthy.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#72

Post by hkmurakami »

dvdkhlng wrote: post #54
jayfuerstenberg wrote: post #5

Japanese society and education can be very demanding of young people. I live in Japan and have never seen so much brainwashing on the topic of the unemployed or uneducated. Besides the term hikikomori there is also NEET (Not Employed, Educated or in Training). Another shocking thing is whenever an upstanding pillar of the community is shown on TV they go out of their way to mention he is a "正社員", a full time employee…

I've always been startled by the word 社会人 which literally means "member of society" but AFAICS is used by people when describing themselves conveying the meaning of "I'm a full-time employee" (as opposed to student, part-time jobber etc.). The implication being that people who're not working full-time are not considered do be part of society?

>The implication being that people who're not working full-time are not considered do be part of society?

If you're not working full time as a formal employee of a company, you are indeed looked down upon.

I have several friends in Japan who earn more from their side gigs (one is an indie musician, another is a designer, another is a programmer) but they all won't quit their day job, saying that it's vital for them to be part of their corporations to be looked upon positively by the rest of society. Hell if you aren't a full employee it's hard to even get married!

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#73

Post by rangibaby »

krichman wrote: post #41
smtddr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's going on in Japan is a bit more severe than the western world's version. It came to a point where videos like these were made - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSq0XOHxJsQ Note the top comment made 4 years ago. While depression definitely exists globally, I don't think I've heard of videos like these being made for any place other than Japan. If I'm wrong though, please correct me.

What is the intended effect of that video? A proxy for human interaction?

They are selling it as a method for getting over shyness or fear of strangers (人見知り)

http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B00166NB0I/

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#74

Post by minikomi »

mathrawka wrote: post #25
patio11 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few people in my generation who "opted out" of The Offer (+) who eventually found themselves doing web freelancing. There are social difficulties involved in doing it, but they're successful and MUCH happier with it than they were in their brief forays to salarymandom. We'll be getting together for our college club annual reunion in September and once more trying to tell kids "Hey guys, if the salaryman thin…

There are also people who accept The Offer because they feel they have no other option. And they are not so happy about their job, but they feel they cannot quit for various social reasons ("But everyone would love to have my job at MegaCorp", "If I quit, what if I fail?"). My gentle prodding to test their comfort zone sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

Indeed. I taught English to a mid-30s lady who worked for a subsidiary of JR. Every lesson, it was the same complaining about her job, her boss.. I suggested that she find a new job and her reaction was complete terror. "I can only imagine it will be worse than what I have now".

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#76

Post by hkmurakami »

patio11 wrote: post #9

Anecdotally, the phenomenon is exacerbated by many people with varying degrees of untreated depression. (A disease which Japan addresses shockingly poorly, even by the standards of Japanese mental health care, which is shockingly poor even considering that mental health care lags treatment of other illnesses virtually everywhere.)

As you must know, mental health issues are often not considered real health issues that need medical treatment. They seem to still carry this cultural undercurrent that such mental issues are just a product of a weak mind, and that one can overcome it with gutso and bravado.

Then people are pushed to the brink and commit suicide or shut themselves off from the world. Glad I'm no longer working there.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#77

Post by laumars »

hkmurakami wrote: post #70
laumars wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually a British term that has been adopted by Japan. I know this might be splitting hairs, but both the wiki link you're replying to and the parent article cite this: "an adopted British acronym meaning "not in education, employment or training"

Japan has imbued the word with a meaning unto itself though. I don't think the British version of the word carries the same kind of social condescension that it does in Japan. Also Hikikkomori means that you literally don't leave your room at all (which is not the case for a NEET). If the hermit needs something, they'll often bang the floor to summon their mother (typically for food)

>Japan has imbued the word with a meaning unto itself though. I don't think the British version of the word carries the same kind of social condescension that it does in Japan.

Agreed. But that doesn't change the origins of the word - it just highlights the cultural (mis)representation of the term.

> Also Hikikkomori means that you literally don't leave your room at all (which is not the case for a NEET). If the hermit needs something, they'll often bang the floor to summon their mother (typically for food)

To be fair, Hikikkomori and NEET aren't meant to refer to the same people anyway. It just so happens there's overlap in the context. An example in western culture could be "freeloaders" and "unemployed". The former has negative connotations (ie they live of others like leaches) where as the latter just states they don't have a job. While some who are unemployed could be classed as freeloaders, it's also fair to say that some who are unemployed are very keen to find work and support themselves. So there's overlap in the people covered by those two terms but they don't automatically refer to the same group of people.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#78

Post by ekianjo »

laumars wrote: post #65
ekianjo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the whole flashy/noisy outside world in Japan can become very alienating sometimes. Sometimes in weekends in Japan the only thing I want to do is to stay away from other people.

There's a whole other side to Japan than the flashy/noisy side of Tokyo. One of the start ups who frequents HN lives in Japan's country side and he's written some interesting blogs and comments on here about how he can go days without seeing another human aside his wife. But sadly the side of Japan that seems to be exported the most is the futuristic, over-populated scenes from Tokyo and thus many foreigners assume t…

Who talked about Tokyo ? I dont even live there. There are many places outside of Tokyo where it's full of people too.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#79

Post by hkmurakami »

rangibaby wrote: post #23

This is a personal anecdote, but it happened last week seems relevant-ish: My landlord is a hikikomori. He is around 50-60 years old, and refuses to leave his room in his house; he instead barks orders at his extremely elderly mother (we're talking older than dirt here; I wouldn't be surprised if she was older than 80). She is a very kind old woman. I was shocked that he sent her to collect water money (we pay to our…

The first wave of young new graduates having problems finding work hit in the early to mid 90's, when the Japanese bubble crashed. The new grads for the rest of the 90s were called "the lost generation", with many of them never being able to find full time work. (the period was also called "The First Employment Ice Age")

That was roughly 20 years ago. This massive wave of underemployed, often-unmarried folks are now in their late 30s. The middle-aged, unemployed, clinically depressed, hikikkomori problem is about to get a whole lot worse in the coming decades (the graduating classes of 2010-2012 were hit really hard too after the financial crisis. This era was called "The Second Employment Ice Age". The class of 2009 was the last class that really had it good in the 2000s.)

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#80

Post by [deleted] »

hkmurakami wrote: post #70
laumars wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually a British term that has been adopted by Japan. I know this might be splitting hairs, but both the wiki link you're replying to and the parent article cite this: "an adopted British acronym meaning "not in education, employment or training"

Japan has imbued the word with a meaning unto itself though. I don't think the British version of the word carries the same kind of social condescension that it does in Japan. Also Hikikkomori means that you literally don't leave your room at all (which is not the case for a NEET). If the hermit needs something, they'll often bang the floor to summon their mother (typically for food)

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