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Linux has better hardware support than OS X

devblog.avdi.org

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Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#71
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you didn't buy the version with the OS installed, then it's not the same comparison. When you buy a MacBook, OS X is already installed and working. I don't know a whole lot about the Dells, but isn't the same true otherwise?

I bought a Macbook Pro with OSX 10.8 already installed, and I am pretty sure I will not have the same problems as sciurus if I buy 10.9. Dell could offer support for 13.04, or maybe Canonical could work to better support one of the few laptops out there with ubuntu on it out of the box.

If a Dell was purchased with Ubuntu pre-installed, I'm sure that a `sudo apt-get dist-upgrade` wouldn't bork during installation either.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#72
Linux (Fedora 18) works a charm on Dell Precision laptops, powerhouse machines at that, can go 32GB RAM like Thinkpad 530Ws, and 3X SSD if you're so inclined (probably coming in sub MBP price to boot).

Had some hiccups with previous Sony Z-series laptop, but one nice thing about switching machines with Linux is that X11 config settings for your peripherals (trackball, wireless KB, etc.) all apply to the new machine.

The biggest headache has been Nvidia, forcing max power consumption (and heat generation) with multi-monitor setups (of course, IIRC that affects all laptop makes, Macs included).

Fortunately Dell Precisions have 2X fans (CPU & GPU) so cool & quiet overall, just not a big fan of Nvidia, would have a near passively cooled machine were it not for the multi-monitor max power issue.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#73

If you mean "better" as in quantitatively more, then yes. The quality of those drivers are far, far worse than the OSX drivers. Also, how is it surprising that OSX has few drivers, when OSX is meant for very specific Apple-designed hardware? Anyway. I'm running Ubuntu on a new Macbook Air (5,1), and both the touchpad and the Wifi drivers are an absolute atrocity on Linux. A few things just doesn't work, like the keyb…

(kernel 3.8.0-25-generic, hardware MacBookAir5,1)

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#74
People use OSX cause it has really good hardware which has good enough software support for the things more people do. I am aware this is probably going to sound along the lines of groupthink, but if there are a lot of people doing this, there must be a good reason.

In my case (and I suspect the case for a lot of folks based on conversations within the place I work at), the sweet spot for OSX is that the hardware is amazing , and the OS is just good enough. I work at a place full of Unix heads, and we all deploy to Linux, but use OSX on our MBP laptops. Software is just one part of the equation, but how your laptop feels when you pick it up and take it to a free working space matters. I guess the Thinkpad does hold up in this regard, but MBP-equivalent Thinkpads are typically more expensive.

I wonder if Avdi has tried using the Dell XPS that he mentions in the article. One of my fellow devs got it a few weeks ago and I tried it. The keyboard on that thing is plasticky and feels weak to the touch, unlike the solid aluminum of the Macbook Pro. I would never get it over an MBP.

Now if Apple changes the core functionality of OSX in a way that hurts dev tools that most people use, they will migrate away. I already see this in my workplace where people are still sticking with Snow Leopard till Apple forces them to upgrade. Why? Because it is good enough.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#75
post #68

This is silly. Although I'm sure it's gotten much better since I regularly used Linux on the desktop, you always had to do some amount of due diligence about what hardware worked well with it and what hardware didn't. For example, because I use OS X, I can go to any store, purchase my choice of Lexmark printer, and be on my merry way with a minimal amount of checking. The fact that I have to know that there's a "refe…

You have a valid point, but theres another side to it. The hardware that works great are the hardware that developers tend to use. The worst low-end lexmarks which are barely good enough for one cartridge cycle is not something any computer enthusiast/programmer would spend time on makeing work.

Since I switched to linux on my laptop 100%, around 2003 somewhere, I always tried to pick hardware which is professional grade, not home/consumer end. Although a bit more pricey to start with but most of the things have lasted since then as well.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#76
post #28

Interestingly, I run Ubuntu on a MacBook and a MacBook Air. As they are a "fixed" target, I figured that at least one developer would have made sure that they "just worked". And, indeed, they did. The installation tutorial was comprehensive, the out of the box experience was great, and upgrades have gone smoothly. The only thing to note was that I was able to manually update the WiFi drivers for (supposedly) better p…

Exactly. If there is any hardware platform that should be a "reference" platform for Linux (or FreeBSD) it should be the mac. It's a very tightly focused hardware ecosystem with broad adoption and of higher quality - inside and out.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#77
When people refers to hardware support as a problem for Linux, when compared to OS X, they usually don't care if it's due to Apple manufacturing both hardware and software. They just care about what works and what doesn't out of the box.

the thing is people buy products. Apple offers a product with a beautiful aluminium body, great battery life and a great OS that just works. Linux fails to offer that, and will continue to fail at offering that, just because that's not their focus.

In my opinion, we're comparing apples with oranges.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#78
post #15

Linux doesn't "just work" on Apple hardware. None of the major distros can currently get the Ethernet adapter on recent Mac Minis working. As a result, we have to run OS X on a bunch of Mac Mini servers we've planned to run Linux on.

Just curious, if you were just planning on running Linux, why buy Mac Minis?

In the past few years we had a lot of success using Mac Minis with OS X as servers. With the latest batch of Mac Minis we have purchased we tried to move over from OS X to Linux, partially because people tend to be more familiar with administering Linux servers and partially because OS X as a server can be a bit quirky.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#80
There's another issue here, and I digress, but...

When I first switched to OSX, it was because there was finally a UNIX system that would "just work" with a printer, or whatever, just like the author describes. Even more importantly, there was a UNIX system with a web browser that "just worked" - no more days of hacking to get a PDF to show up properly, or a flash animation, etc.

Now, in 2013, I am willing to stipulate that the author is correct, and hardware support is no longer an issue with Linux, etc. So why am I staying with OSX ?

Because of the virtualization licensing.

No matter what platform I choose to run myself (and I would prefer a free OS) I absolutely need to virtualize OSX. And OSX is the only system I can do that on.[1]

So that's that. As odd as it seems, it is the OS licensing of an OS I don't even care to run that forces me to run it.

[1] Yes, I know all about it. No, I do not have time to hack around the restrictions and trick vmware, etc. I wish I did. I don't.

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