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Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

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Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#71
post #34

Have you paid anything yet? Don't. Drop him. Here are two good reasons to drop him: 1. You are wasting your time -- I don't think he'll give you anything, or you'll end up spending so much money that profits are unreasonable. 2. Even if he does, what guarantee is there that there is no "surprise" hidden in the code? I have seen freelancers do that when they're disappointed in the buyer. Find another guy and learn fro…

I paid him more than 2000 dollars of the fee already unfortunately. I've learnt a lot from this, specifically that even really good coders (or any professional) can be very good at what they do but still be completely unreasonable and willing to screw you.

He's not a really good coder, really good programmers don't work for peanuts. Good programmers in America make anywhere from 6k to 10k a month, what exactly do you think you're going to get for 2k?

For the price you're offering, you won't find any good programmers that'll work for you, you'll only find hacks who think they can and are more than willing to take your money while learning.

If you think you can spend 2k to have some monkey write some code for you that you're going to sell and make a ton of money with, you're sadly mistaken. If you think your idea is with 90% and he'll do all the work for 10% and 2k, you're also sadly mistaken and very like to be taken, as you clearly have.

If you think you have an idea that's worth anything, you need to find a good programmer and bring him on as a full partner, he'll be the one doing most of the work and offering anything less will be insulting and unlikely to work out for you. He needs to be as vested in the success of the endeavor as you or it'll likely fail.

If you just want your idea implemented by a contractor and you keep all ownership and a reasonable estimate is that it's two months of work, then you're looking at 10k to 15k to get it done right by a competent programmer, not 2k. You'll get what you pay for.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#72

Cut your losses. At some point you have to admit to yourself that you've been had and you won't get any kind of compensation. You're just wasting resources. Next time you'll be more apt at heeding the red flags.

Also, it's very unlikely that he's really almost done. Haven't you heard that the first 90% of the project takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time?

And doing business with jerks is bad business.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#73
$2500 will barely cover about 100hrs of effort (2.5 weeks). So a $2500 is a really simple app. If he has put that effort already consider that you have had your moneys worth.

Likely, he was thinking of a one bedroom house. You were thinking swimming pool, gourmet kitchen, etc, etc. Professional software developers know how to deal with it. The lesson is easily worth $2500.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#75
I presume you (or your company) owns the IP. If so, fire him, take the code and find someone else (in this economy, that is not as challenging as it seems) to look at it. You will lose several months, but you will gain clarity and peace of mind (assuming you learn from this lesson and hire a better personality).

I went through the EXACT same situation with a Java developer last year. The developer extorted us, refused to hand over code, always demanded more money, was rude and insisted that he was doing us a favor. We finally let him go. Coincidentally, it was around August 2008!

Fire him and move on.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#76

Cut your losses. At some point you have to admit to yourself that you've been had and you won't get any kind of compensation. You're just wasting resources. Next time you'll be more apt at heeding the red flags.

Also, it's very unlikely that he's really almost done. Haven't you heard that the first 90% of the project takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time? And doing business with jerks is bad business.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#77
To the original poster on this topic...

I know you made a deal with this developer but the fact that your original deal was to build your app within 2 months and it has been almost a year now - you REALLY need to walk away. It hurts both emotionally and financially, but based on all the feedback you've received - you should really consider what the community is telling you and move on.

I write software for a living and I have been in positions where other contractors have written software for my groups so If I ever made a deal with someone that included having software done in two months - waiting almost a year later for the project to be completed is just plain ridiculous and totally unacceptable. Especially when you take into consideration all of the things that you have mentioned.

It hurts us to hear about your story, we wish you the best but help yourself and start over. Take what you have learned from this experience and apply it to the next iteration. The fact that you've worked through a lot of questions, issues and the conops of how your application would work - take this experience and knowledge and find someone that comes recommended and is trusted and give it another shot.

Best wishes.

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#78
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a salary or for freelance? I think salary hours are typically 0.5 * freelance hours, is that right? So inside a company, $1250 is less than a week's worth of work for anyone good?

Freelance. Salary-wise, $1250 a week is about $62K per year which anyone with a pulse can get in silicon valley.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#79
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a salary or for freelance? I think salary hours are typically 0.5 * freelance hours, is that right? So inside a company, $1250 is less than a week's worth of work for anyone good?

Freelance. Salary-wise, $1250 a week is about $62K per year which anyone with a pulse can get in silicon valley.

So what does anyone good get then? (salary-wise)

Re: Ask HN: I've had some software developed, now the coder is holding me for ransom.

#80
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I hire someone to build a house they don't get insulted when I offer them 10% of future rental yields. How can it be insulting to offer a percentage which wasn't even in the initial agreement? Maybe you're thinking about it in the wrong way. If you were to commission somebody to create a painting, you wouldn't paint over his or her name, scribble your own over it, and try to take credit for the work, would you? Ev…

I appreciate that coding software is an iterative process. But this software was planned out very clearly, there were some minor changes, but nothing big. Im not sure why 10 percent doesn't seem like a good deal for him, he quoted me 2500 dollars, which is all he should get. Out of desperation and a desire to get the project moving and actually get some results, I offered him 10 percent when it was several months lat…

Your biggest problem is that having offered him a stake in the project, you've created a situation in which he now has a reasonable right to control over the way the source code is deployed. I'd assume your programmer set up server authentication to get visibility into the number of sales. If I was working in return for a percentage of sales I would expect a way to independently verify sales figures as well.

That is really going to limit your flexibility down the road, so it is probably easier to just develop from scratch. Perhaps you should let him know you're disappointed with how things have worked out and are thinking about getting something simpler developed by someone else. Be honest and don't come across as personally critical and the discussion may push him to finish things, or break him of the mindset that you are trying to take advantage of him.

I outsource design work on a per-project basis, by the way, and like to ask people to let me know how long they take completing the work, especially since most of the time it involves iterating a couple of times. This approach lets me figure out what their hourly take-home is when all is said and done. If it ends up being too low, I like to increase it a bit more to build good relationships. Having reliable go-to people who can take care of problems on short-notice at a low cost is a lot more valuable than losing $20 here and there over individual projects.

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