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Ask HN: Why do corporate failures always seem to punish the wrong people?
71–80 of 135 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why do corporate failures always seem to punish the wrong people?
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait, I've posted the link 6 minutes ago and this reply is now 2 minutes old. You cannot possibly have read that. Unless this is an autonomous agent doing some engagement work thingy. Which the tone + story sounds like. Dang DAAAAAANG Heeeeelp, the robots are at it again
They could have read it previously.
They could be in a different Timezone.
;)
Re: Ask HN: Why do corporate failures always seem to punish the wrong people?
#73It is an interesting subject - but so much have been written about it in the past. I would like to read what are the new angles.
And for the past discussions see:
HACKER NEWS DISCUSSION LINKS
THE GERVAIS PRINCIPLE
* The Gervais Principle Main Submission (October 2009) https://ycombinator.com
* The Gervais Principle, or the Office According to "The Office" (August 2024) https://ycombinator.com
MORAL MAZES
* Moral Mazes: Bureaucracy and Managerial Work (February 2020) https://ycombinator.com
* Moral Mazes and Emotional Labor Comment (October 2019) https://ycombinator.com
MEDITATIONS ON MOLOCH
* Meditations on Moloch Systems Discussion (April 2019) https://ycombinator.com
* Meditations on Moloch Main Discussion (March 2023) https://ycombinator.com
* Context from Scott Alexander's Blog (June 2025) https://ycombinator.com
THREADS INTERSECTING MULTIPLE CONCEPTS
* Best books for dealing with workplace politics and dishonesty? (December 2020) https://ycombinator.com
* Analysis comparing Gervais Principle to Moral Mazes (April 2023) https://ycombinator.com
* Ask HN: Stories of political intrigue in large companies (December 2023) https://ycombinator.com
* Things I want to say to my boss (December 2025) https://ycombinator.com
Re: Ask HN: Why do corporate failures always seem to punish the wrong people?
#74Corporate world is tribal, if not feudal. Reason why the Nobles can do nothing wrong by default, and the Villagers are always the villan. If I may have a suggestion, Buckminster Fuller - Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth is a short and great perspective over these dynamics.
Re: Ask HN: Why do corporate failures always seem to punish the wrong people?
#75This trend in corporate America is called failing upwards
"You fuck up, you move up" is how it's been explained to me.
The way i understand it hr usually requires a paper trail before you can fire someone but that paper trail requires the subject to break company policy to earn the reprimand that would make up that paper trail. If someone is just bad at their job and makes poor managerial decisions that isnt exactly a valid reason to fire them so its actually easier to promote them so at least they arent in your department, you can send them somewhere else in the company and make them someone elses problem if you cant find a reason to get rid of them.
Re: Ask HN: Why do corporate failures always seem to punish the wrong people?
#76Never work tirelessly for anything that isn’t yours.
Re: Ask HN: Why do corporate failures always seem to punish the wrong people?
#771. Being too good in an organization makes you a threat to those above you. 2. When an organization must downsize, you want to make sure once the dust settles that no one under you is able to take your job. 3. These decisions are political, so you need political power to defend against them.
Can't we keep politics out of software?
software is actually one of the sectors most vulnerable to politics as it's a lot more difficult to measure how much value employees add compared to other sectors. Marketing, sales, manufacturing ... are relatively simple to track.
Re: Ask HN: Why do corporate failures always seem to punish the wrong people?
#78My feeling is that modern US corporate structure/attitude is a direct extension of the Norman conquest of England and it's power structure. Those at the top are not 'of' those below them. All below them, along with all markets, are purely their for their exploitation and benefit. Corporate officers are given a charter by the owners, just as the Sheriff of Naught Ingham was granted a charter, to give them power to do maximum extraction at the owners benefit, not because that sort of organizational structure is optimal. The executive offices and the people in them are very much seen/treated/behave in the same was as the castle on the hill and the Norman lords. Isolated from impacts. Systems/walls/castles to protect THEM from their actions but to punish those below who don't fall in line.
Re: Ask HN: Why do corporate failures always seem to punish the wrong people?
#79[flagged]
Re: Ask HN: Why do corporate failures always seem to punish the wrong people?
#80There's a fallacy that we all fall into: We think that our job is about turning the crank, and that the best crank turners will stay around the longest. It's not: I've been involved in quite a few projects that get abandoned, (or otherwise miss their target) for one reason or another. There's a few things that you (or your partner) can do to protect yourself. Most important: Make sure that your role (as an engineer)…
All good advice, I do disagree with one statement, however, mainly because I've seen this getting violated many times now:
> "Make sure that your role (as an engineer) in your company is in the most critical part of the company as you can handle."
The main problem here is how much the organization wants to think it can continue without those crucial parts, I've seen wild things go down in this regard, and I think we'll see a lot more in the near future with people hoping that AI will take care of it. And, on the flipside, and much to my surprise, how often the org can actually survive through such disaster cuts regardless, even though they'll end up at a worse place than they were at before, but the simple act of surviving it -- at that point -- is enough of a success to continue onwards.