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Denmark: EVs Make Up 97% of New Private Car Sales in July

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Re: Denmark: EVs Make Up 97% of New Private Car Sales in July

#71

Post by rickydroll »

pgsandstrom wrote: post #50
rich_sasha wrote: post #48

The world is in a weird prisoner’s dilemma right now. US, China, to some extent India, are pumping out CO2, and deriving a short term “co2” dividend of higher growth, unencumbered by green transition cost. Europe is somewhat trying harder to transition away, partly for “green” reasons, partly for sovereignty reasons, partly because they just outsourced their industry. Europe is also potentially more affected by clima…

My impression is that the US is more vulnerable to climate change than Europe. While Europe has heat waves, the US has a hurricane problem that simply does not exist in Europe, which can result in horrendous societal damage.

Don't forget tornadoes and nor'easters (temperate-zone winter hurricanes). How do we compare on floods, drought, wildfires, heat domes, and deep cold?

Re: Denmark: EVs Make Up 97% of New Private Car Sales in July

#72

Post by rich_sasha »

tpm wrote: post #63
rich_sasha wrote: post #48

The world is in a weird prisoner’s dilemma right now. US, China, to some extent India, are pumping out CO2, and deriving a short term “co2” dividend of higher growth, unencumbered by green transition cost. Europe is somewhat trying harder to transition away, partly for “green” reasons, partly for sovereignty reasons, partly because they just outsourced their industry. Europe is also potentially more affected by clima…

> So should Europe continue on the green path while losing GDP share to US, China and India? So the article is about huge private EV car marketshare in Denmark, but for the whole EU the EV marketshare of passenger vehicles is around 25% right now, plus around 10% PHEV. China (a much bigger car market) is at 43% EV marketshare, and also another 20% for PHEV. They have invested much more in the passenger vehicle transi…

I didn’t make it clear but my question isn’t about cars specifically. Cars are clearly a part of it.

I can’t find any handy data, but my understanding is that US and China certainly have the most fossil fuel in their new power plants. As well as, notably, China putting online a lot of renewables and nuclear in absolute terms.

Re: Denmark: EVs Make Up 97% of New Private Car Sales in July

#73

Post by tim333 »

moltar wrote: post #41
sqbic wrote: post #30

No wonder, the country is so small that any modern EV can drive it around completely with single charge. They also have abundance of especially wind energy, and the government recently dropped the electricity tax to EU minimum in order to make electricity very affordable for the Danish folks.

How often does the majority of the population need to drive around the country? I doubt it’s a major factor for the majority of people.

You never quite know when something will come up over the far side of wherever you are.

Re: Denmark: EVs Make Up 97% of New Private Car Sales in July

#74

Post by tencentshill »

Markoff wrote: post #42
hdgvhicv wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people charge EVs at home most of the time.

roughly 47% Danish population lives in multi-dwelling apartment blocks (53% in house properties) in Norway its roughly 25% (apartments) vs 75% (houses)

The car sits somewhere overnight. Put a charger there.

Re: Denmark: EVs Make Up 97% of New Private Car Sales in July

#75

Post by rsynnott »

Assuming this continues, it'll be interesting to see what happens in about a decade as demand for petrol collapses. My general sense is that there's a fairly _large_ minimum demand required before the fuel distribution network becomes uneconomic and just collapses.

Re: Denmark: EVs Make Up 97% of New Private Car Sales in July

#76

Post by rsynnott »

moltar wrote: post #41
sqbic wrote: post #30

No wonder, the country is so small that any modern EV can drive it around completely with single charge. They also have abundance of especially wind energy, and the government recently dropped the electricity tax to EU minimum in order to make electricity very affordable for the Danish folks.

How often does the majority of the population need to drive around the country? I doubt it’s a major factor for the majority of people.

For most people, in most countries, very rarely if ever, but it may be a psychological barrier.

Re: Denmark: EVs Make Up 97% of New Private Car Sales in July

#77

Post by rsynnott »

spwa4 wrote: post #47
sqbic wrote: post #30

No wonder, the country is so small that any modern EV can drive it around completely with single charge. They also have abundance of especially wind energy, and the government recently dropped the electricity tax to EU minimum in order to make electricity very affordable for the Danish folks.

The country has also modified the tax code that any EV is ~5000 euro cheaper in acquisition costs (through tax punishment for ICE + tax advantage for EV), about ~800 euro per year cheaper (there's secondary tax measures making ICE vehicles more expensive on an ongoing basis, depends on the car, and okay, 800 would be for a very nice car), plus guaranteed public charging capacity (and of course due to charging limits…

> That's what it takes in 2026 to make EVs still not quite cheaper than ICE cars.

That's beginning to change. VW Polo base model in Ireland: 25000 eur (of which about 3000 VRT). VW id.Polo (VW has changed its electric car naming scheme, again): 20000 eur, with 3500 grant and no VRT. So if you exclude incentivisation in both directions, the Polo costs about 22000, the id.Polo costs 23500. _With_ incentives, the electric version is clearly a lot cheaper.

Operating costs for the id.Polo are also much lower, of course.

Re: Denmark: EVs Make Up 97% of New Private Car Sales in July

#78

Post by hvb2 »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #28
hvb2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not very difficult to put some cables in the ground and install a big pre built metal box :) But increasingly it's becoming a problem that those cables have nowhere to run to as the grid isn't capable of serving them all. There might be excess generation but unless you have the capacity in the wires to get it where it's needed you're still stuck. Especially in dense old cuties where the grid was built when the…

>incandescent light bulbs which are an order of magnitude less efficient than contemporary LED lights.

The whole point is that we used to assume that maybe 1 kW was sufficient. 6kW or 9kW isn't uncommon anymore, especially when you also use it for heating

Re: Denmark: EVs Make Up 97% of New Private Car Sales in July

#79

Post by Markoff »

tencentshill wrote: post #74
Markoff wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

roughly 47% Danish population lives in multi-dwelling apartment blocks (53% in house properties) in Norway its roughly 25% (apartments) vs 75% (houses)

The car sits somewhere overnight. Put a charger there.

not viable solution for people in apartments, most of the cars in Prague sits on the street next to curb without any chargers nearby, I don't think there is any country which would have chargers for every car parked on street, it's always shared charger for MANY cars, which works when there are only very few EVs like right now, but once you reach certain point the only realistic solution are expensive fast chargers (which are inconvenient anyway, since it still takes much more time to refill energy for same range as ICE in same amount of time)

Re: Denmark: EVs Make Up 97% of New Private Car Sales in July

#80

Post by tpm »

rich_sasha wrote: post #72
tpm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So should Europe continue on the green path while losing GDP share to US, China and India? So the article is about huge private EV car marketshare in Denmark, but for the whole EU the EV marketshare of passenger vehicles is around 25% right now, plus around 10% PHEV. China (a much bigger car market) is at 43% EV marketshare, and also another 20% for PHEV. They have invested much more in the passenger vehicle transi…

I didn’t make it clear but my question isn’t about cars specifically. Cars are clearly a part of it. I can’t find any handy data, but my understanding is that US and China certainly have the most fossil fuel in their new power plants. As well as, notably, China putting online a lot of renewables and nuclear in absolute terms.

> US and China certainly have the most fossil fuel in their new power plants

Don't know about the US (mostly I think it's renewables) but as for China, this statement comes up often, and I think it's not entirely correct. Because investment seems to work different there, there is a lot of coal power plants either planned, permitted or even constructed, but that then does not show up in the actual coal use or energy generation stats. So probably it's a mix of planned but then canned, old coal plants being replaced etc. Thanks to the Iran crisis this years coal use will certainly rise, but last year at least coal share of energy generation has fallen.

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