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Read the novels and forget everything else

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Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#71

Post by jimnotgym »

JoeDaDude wrote: post #27
nabbed wrote: post #14

>And then it all went bad. The Daily Telegraph, following up on biographical discrepancy in a BBC documentary, uncovered proof that Patrick O’Brian…was not Patrick O’Brian. About 15 years ago, I decided to know as little as possible about the musicians/artists/writers whose work I was consuming, because I didn't want my enjoyment of their work to be influenced or spoiled by what I knew about them (even superficial th…

The "human connection to the artist" is believed to be important by some, but I disagree. People tend to create an image of a musician and are too often disappointed because, for example, they disapprove of the musician's lifestyle (the expression sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll exists for a reason), or because of disagreement with the social or political causes the musicians support. Occasionally, fans follow an artist…

Indeed, unless the artist is some kind of moralist, where i may be concerned about hypocrisy, I believe their public appearance to be part of the act, what they are like at home is none of my business.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#72

Post by saimiam »

edflsafoiewq wrote: post #65
fergie wrote: post #62

> O’Brian’s ear for dialogue produced some of his finest comedy. From The 13 Gun Salute (1989): > > “A lovely young woman indeed, Heaven,” said Jack. “Mrs Heaven, if I do not mistake?” > “Why, sir, in a manner of speaking: but some might say more on the porcupine-lay, the roving-line, if you understand me.” > “There is a great deal to be said for porcupines, Heaven: Solomon had a thousand, and Solomon knew what o’clo…

"Porcupine" confused with "concubine".

I honestly thought concubine would fit in here to make the joke but without other clues, dismissed the idea. I wonder why the writer picked this as an example of the author’s supposed humor skills. It seems rather contrived.

Even charitably, we’d have to be super familiar with everything the author has written to understand than Heaven could mistake porcupine for concubine.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#73

Post by jimnotgym »

Nursie wrote: post #42
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he pointed out that by insisting on maintaining ignorance, I could be funding a very bad person. I don't consider that to be something worth worrying about. On the contrary, I find the obsession that some have with moral purity and not ever supporting the wrong type of person to be a serious mark of immaturity. Every person, without exception, is a collection of both good and bad traits. I believe that the adult th…

I think the desire to not have to be accountable for ones choices and their effect on the world is also childlike, personally. One of the powers we have in this capitalist world is to decide where our money goes. If there's a decent chance it'll end up perpetuating something I find massively objectionable, it's my choice not to fund that. Beyond that it's not just about reducing everything to good or bad, it's also a…

I am quite sure that not a penny from my purchase of Master and Commander went to Patrick O'Brian.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#74

Post by jimnotgym »

Well after that article and these comments, I need to burn a lot of books, art and music that I once loved.

I used to love Millais' 'Ophelia', but he now seems arrogant and even bedded his patrons wife. The scandal. On the fire.

I used to love the Rolling Stones, but it seems they took drugs and held concerts organised by an organised crime group. On the fire.

Master and Commander was one of the most touching and uplifting reads of my life, all at a tragic time for me. But he left his wife, didn't like talking about his past and wrote under a book de plume, it seems. On the fire.

I loved Oscar Wilde's work, but the rogue was a jail bird, and very arrogant. On the fire

Can we compile an approved list of quality works from faultless individuals? I don't want to be sullied by their human faults...AI slop to the rescue

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#75

Post by Nursie »

jimnotgym wrote: post #73
Nursie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the desire to not have to be accountable for ones choices and their effect on the world is also childlike, personally. One of the powers we have in this capitalist world is to decide where our money goes. If there's a decent chance it'll end up perpetuating something I find massively objectionable, it's my choice not to fund that. Beyond that it's not just about reducing everything to good or bad, it's also a…

I am quite sure that not a penny from my purchase of Master and Commander went to Patrick O'Brian.

Just as I am sure that not a single penny of my purchase of Tales of the Cthulu Mythos went to HP Lovecraft.

But knowing about the artist can still inform views about the art.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#76

Post by hgomersall »

ComputerPerson wrote: post #7
magicmicah85 wrote: post #5

I loved the Peter Weir adaptation and was always hopeful there would be more, particularly with that ending leaving it open like that. I picked up the first book recently so that I could read through it on vacation. I do tend to agree with Jan Morris in that only people who knew the author have reason to care about his personal life. Of course there are limits, and given the author has been dead for 26 years and the…

I haven't read Master and Commander and likely never will after reading this article. I couldn't get over the bad taste in my mouth I don't think. Fortunate for you to have read the book before the article. Too many good novels that weren't written by dispicable people.

I think it's not to absurd to view these books as his channel to redemption.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#77

Post by fluoridation »

abnercoimbre wrote: post #61
the_af wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some authors are indeed very hard to separate from their work, and Lovecraft is one of them. I still enjoy reading him, but I always struggle reading his passages about mongrels, halfbreeds or dark skinned people being evil or deceitful, because that's what he truly believed. So yes, it flowed into what he wrote. A much less odious -- and better! -- writer who I also had trouble with was Jack London, who also wrote s…

I drink it all in. It enhances the art for me while making sure I sharpen my own ethics (“don’t ever wanna believe the B.S. this person did.”)

I couldn't really stand Lovecraft's style, but I'm with you. I'd read it like I read an ironic racist comment on 4chan and chuckle to myself.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#78

Post by dmurray »

jimbob45 wrote: post #29

I had no idea floccinaucihipilification was a real word. I saw it in a fake spelling bee for a commercial decades ago and assumed it was just a comically long fake word.

It was invented as a comically long fake word, but gained enough currency to be used in real writing, though in a tongue-in-cheek way.

It's a Latin calque. I'm sure the spelling should be floccipaucinihil... from pauci, few and nihil, nothing - you and the reviewer have used spellings that differ from this and from each other, but I doubt O'Brian did.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#79

Post by colinb »

delis-thumbs-7e wrote: post #52
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #33

I find it difficult to understand the immaturity of not being able to separate the art and artist. It’s really not difficult. I think some of it is performative for signaling to one’s peers that they are on the “right side” of some issue or imagined virtue.

What you are doing is not maturity, but compartmentalisation. If you simply refuse to hear a single piece of evidence of, say, Michael Jackson’s pedophilia, or Roman Polanski’s repeated rape accusations, you are choosing willful ignorance, especially since often the artist’s status and fame make their criminal behaviour possible and provides them shelter from prosecution. I myself am far from innocent of this. For mo…

I too thought of Polanski (Roman, not Zac) while reading these threads. I’m not sure the comparison or perhaps, the parallel holds though. PO’b may have been a bad husband. Or he may have been married to a bad wife. Or maybe they were both a bit rough. I don’t know an any real evidence either way, and life has taught me that it’s hard to see inside the truth of other people’s relationships. I have trouble enough with my own, and I’m present in real-time!

Polanski R is not the same thing. He drugged and raped a child and was defended for decades by people who ought to know better because of his directorial genius. I don’t dispute that genius. I just can’t watch his movies again without feeling a little sick.

All of this to say, judging Polanski for being a monster is not the same as judging PO’b for being a jerk. I reread the Aubrey-Maturin novels every four or five years and they enrich my life on every occasion. And I don’t feel even slightly bad about it.

(Disappointingly, I did lose an argument over a big family dinner several years ago when it turned it that tracklement is a neologism. Imagine my embarrassment!)

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#80

Post by soco »

tecoholic wrote: post #45
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he pointed out that by insisting on maintaining ignorance, I could be funding a very bad person. I don't consider that to be something worth worrying about. On the contrary, I find the obsession that some have with moral purity and not ever supporting the wrong type of person to be a serious mark of immaturity. Every person, without exception, is a collection of both good and bad traits. I believe that the adult th…

Someone pointed it out to me that, if a person does something bad and faces the consequences by law, then that should be the end of it. Applying a personal punishment individually like avoiding anything they have involved in, is pointless or even unfair. It can’t apply to all scenarios. But that struck me as an important thing to consider. Sometimes people get out of the consequences by using the riches they accumula…

Why are we even thinking about "fairness" in this context? It's not like we read every book in the world, in order to be fair to all authors. Or all genres, all qualities, all equally. You have to make some choices and actually make every second a choice, to pick a book, to pick it up, to continue it after page 100...
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