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Read the novels and forget everything else

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Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#51

Post by SanjayMehta »

the_af wrote: post #34
DHPersonal wrote: post #19

I had a similar author shock when I learned James Herriot’s books were not the autobiographies I thought they were but instead were the fictionalized compilations of stories from multiple veterinarians. I had such a great time reading the books as a young man and was dismayed to learn they weren’t authentic. I appreciated learning the truth but wondered if perhaps believing the lie would’ve been better for something…

I dunno. In the case of Herriot, whose books I utterly love, I only half believed in my teenage years they were truly autobiographical (too funny, too neat to be true), and I wasn't surprised when I found they weren't. Well, they have some tidbits from his actual life, but yeah, a blend of multiple stories, some from others, some made up. I still believe they are undiminished as books and enjoy them from time to time…

I don't know if Herriot was a vet in real life. If he was and suffered from depression it wouldn't surprise me.

I have seen statistics which state that vets more likely to commit suicide than GPs.

And the story about the young man and his dog rings true. A close friend always breaks up when he remembers how he had to put down his dog due to cancer.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#52

Post by delis-thumbs-7e »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #33

I find it difficult to understand the immaturity of not being able to separate the art and artist. It’s really not difficult. I think some of it is performative for signaling to one’s peers that they are on the “right side” of some issue or imagined virtue.

What you are doing is not maturity, but compartmentalisation. If you simply refuse to hear a single piece of evidence of, say, Michael Jackson’s pedophilia, or Roman Polanski’s repeated rape accusations, you are choosing willful ignorance, especially since often the artist’s status and fame make their criminal behaviour possible and provides them shelter from prosecution.

I myself am far from innocent of this. For more than 20 years Polanski has been, and in many ways still is, my favourite film maker. Repulsion, Tenant, Chinatown etc. are masterpieces of cinema. But they are inherently, even on plot level (at least in the case of Chinatown) intertwined with the horror of his actions. There is no virtue signalling in my personal connection to his set of work (who would even care anyway), but for me to continue pretend I know nothing about his behaviour or that it doesn’t directly inflect upon his work would be deeply dishonest.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#53

Post by teddyh »

Nursie wrote: post #42
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he pointed out that by insisting on maintaining ignorance, I could be funding a very bad person. I don't consider that to be something worth worrying about. On the contrary, I find the obsession that some have with moral purity and not ever supporting the wrong type of person to be a serious mark of immaturity. Every person, without exception, is a collection of both good and bad traits. I believe that the adult th…

I think the desire to not have to be accountable for ones choices and their effect on the world is also childlike, personally. One of the powers we have in this capitalist world is to decide where our money goes. If there's a decent chance it'll end up perpetuating something I find massively objectionable, it's my choice not to fund that. Beyond that it's not just about reducing everything to good or bad, it's also a…

> One of the powers we have in this capitalist world is to decide where our money goes. If there's a decent chance it'll end up perpetuating something I find massively objectionable, it's my choice not to fund that.

“I believe that almost everyone fails to completely understand how badly they need the people they can’t stand.”

— Jason K. Pargin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3GzrYI8Tj4>

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#54

Post by Nursie »

teddyh wrote: post #53
Nursie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the desire to not have to be accountable for ones choices and their effect on the world is also childlike, personally. One of the powers we have in this capitalist world is to decide where our money goes. If there's a decent chance it'll end up perpetuating something I find massively objectionable, it's my choice not to fund that. Beyond that it's not just about reducing everything to good or bad, it's also a…

> One of the powers we have in this capitalist world is to decide where our money goes. If there's a decent chance it'll end up perpetuating something I find massively objectionable, it's my choice not to fund that. “I believe that almost everyone fails to completely understand how badly they need the people they can’t stand.” — Jason K. Pargin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3GzrYI8Tj4 >

“It's not easy being green.”

- Kermit The Frog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRZ-IxZ46ng>

Eh, I'm not watching a video to see a quote from someone I've never heard of and have no particular reason to value.

And whatever he might have to say, I'm not reliant on the work of a specific author, which is the context here.

Nor do I buy into "you can't survive without relying on/funding some people you disagree with therefore you shouldn't seek to act consistently with your own ethics in any regard" as a philosophy.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#56

Post by teddyh »

Nursie wrote: post #54
teddyh wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the powers we have in this capitalist world is to decide where our money goes. If there's a decent chance it'll end up perpetuating something I find massively objectionable, it's my choice not to fund that. “I believe that almost everyone fails to completely understand how badly they need the people they can’t stand.” — Jason K. Pargin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3GzrYI8Tj4 >

“It's not easy being green.” - Kermit The Frog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRZ-IxZ46ng > Eh, I'm not watching a video to see a quote from someone I've never heard of and have no particular reason to value. And whatever he might have to say, I'm not reliant on the work of a specific author, which is the context here. Nor do I buy into "you can't survive without relying on/funding some people you disagree with the…

> Eh, I'm not watching a video to see a quote from someone I've never heard of and have no particular reason to value.

Your loss.

> Nor do I buy into "you can't survive without relying on/funding some people you disagree with therefore you shouldn't seek to act consistently with your own ethics in any regard" as a philosophy.

But what exactly is your ethics here? Is it that nobody should rely on people who have done something bad? If it is, then how should these condemned people live? And if not, would you then happily allow other people to rely on them, without decrying those people, as well?

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#57

Post by js2 »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #49
tclancy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s Jack talking through his hat again. I think he’s trying to determine if a woman is married or not and when it turns out they having a roving eye, he conflates “porcupine” (no idea what a porcupine-lay might be) with “concubine”.

I think "lay" might be as literal as we would use it now.

It's probably slang for "line of work: occupation":

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lay

See 3b under its noun definition.

So: “Why, sir, in a manner of speaking: but some might say more on the porcupine-lay, the roving-line, if you understand me.”

Translates to: “Why, sir, in a manner of speaking: but some might say more on the concubine-occupation, the roving-line [of work], if you understand me.”

Then Jack, not wanting to embarrass Heaven for his malapropism, intentionaly reuses "porcupine" incorrectly.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#58

Post by jasone »

WalterBright wrote: post #28

I've rarely read anything that had so many words I had never heard of!

If you enjoyed that experience, read The Book of the New Sun, by Gene Wolfe (5 books, 1-2 and 3-4 commonly printed as combined volumes: Shadow & Claw, Sword & Citadel, The Urth of the New Sun). I re-read them this spring, and they remain among the top ~3 series I've ever (re-)read.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#59

Post by vvbull »

defen wrote: post #48
ComputerPerson wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read Master and Commander and likely never will after reading this article. I couldn't get over the bad taste in my mouth I don't think. Fortunate for you to have read the book before the article. Too many good novels that weren't written by dispicable people.

I think it's a mistake to dismiss them just for that reason. He's been dead for 26 years, and you can get the books second-hand, so it's easy to acquire them while ensuring no money goes to him or his estate if that's what you're worried about. They're an absolutely fantastic set of novels, full of joy and adventure and excitement and humor and astonishing erudition.. Tom Stoppard admired him (as mentioned in the art…

If I can find more media than I could ever possibly consume that a) I'll love to death, b) has a fan community who loves it with me, and c) is written by authors I don't viscerally reject, why would I ever compromise on those?

Vanishingly few works are so good, so life altering, that I'd need to set aside my qualms with the author to read them. Like, I'm sure master and commander is a fine series of books. I'm sure it's many people's favorite series. There's no lack of historical fiction out there though. And more of it is being written every day. It's not dismissing the work, but it's more like making it a low priority. Once I've consumed all the high priority media ahead of it, I'll read it, it's just.... the amount of high priority media is effectively infinite.

Re: Read the novels and forget everything else

#60

Post by vvbull »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #25
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still like those books, and, for some reason, that didn't affect me. Other people, however, have. Science fiction/fantasy has a long, turgid history of weird and unsavory authors. I tend to ignore that. I think books have a firewall between the author and the characters on the page. Actors, however, are a different matter. They are the medium.

I've always enjoyed H P Lovecraft and was disappointed to learn about his racism and xenophobia. AI tells me its was way beyond what was normal at the time.

And, for me, it recontextualizes a lot of his writing knowing his racism. Who he thought "the other" was and how they appeared in his work is colored by who he thought the other was in real life.
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