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My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

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Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#71

Post by toss1 »

petilon wrote: post #7

Yes, there is something wrong with the insurance industry. But there is something wrong with the hospitals, doctors and drug companies too. The whole system is broken. Hospitals try to eke out the most out of insurance companies, often providing services that are unnecessary. Pharmaceutical companies charge US patients significantly higher rates than in other countries. Don't put all the blame on insurance companies.

NO

The insurance companies are running the system more than any of the others — it is the finance "wizards" there who put the constraints on the rest of the system. I'll agree somewhat on the pharma companies too, who are also extractive.

You even said it yourself: "Hospitals try to eke out the most out of insurance companies...". Exactly! Because the hospitals and doctors are constrained to do "WHAT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PATIENT" — that is their charter (and BTW, that is also the magic phrase to use whenever questioning what they propose to do for a patient or escalating a case). Perhaps a few hospitals or physicians occasionally overdo it, and there are some frauds, but your accusation overall is BS.

The insurance companies have no such constraint — if they do have such a mission goal, it is to OBTAIN MAXIMUM VALUE FOR THE SHAREHOLDERS. And the insurance companies are literally so amoral that they will reward agents for killing people for profit. That is not rhetoric, it is sworn testimony before congress of a person who cut off a patient's coverage, causing their death, and got promoted.

I have seen directly and personally an insurance company deny coverage for a test ordered for a close family member by the Chief Of Cardiology at Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinic, and that physician are so overbooked they have ZERO motivation to order anything not necessary for the patient in front of them. It took days, and significant extra expense to get it reversed.

There is no way on the planet that anyone in an insurance industry should be able to override the doctors orders of the Director of Cardiology for Mayo Clinic. Or any physician, for that matter.

Medicine is one of the things that should never be run for a profit, and if I were on Luigi Mangione's jury I would acquit on Jury Nullification.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#72

Post by tracker1 »

I've had to go through this with treatments for my eyes... that I haven't been able to see a doctor on for about a year and a half because as a contractor my insurance sucks and even when I've had good insurance it was often problematic... wierd codes and then a back and forth call the insurance, call the provider only to ever get answers if I 3-way called them both and held them both to account.

More than once I was on the hook for a $15k set of injections that I had to run on a credit card. At this point, I'm maxed out, paying out of pocket for what I can and it sucks... I'm hoping to convert to a City employee (temp) vs contractor which at least gets decent medical, but my own experience has me doubtful even then. I've worked my whole adult life, didn't even take vacation time through my 20's and 30's... and never planned to retire... I don't want to, but I'm facing a reality that may not give me a choice in the long run.

I don't think shifting to public healthcare is the answer in the US... but would like something similar to fiduciary safeguards around medicine and insurance.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#73

Post by rayiner »

JohnFen wrote: post #36
EvanAnderson wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have enough money for that gamble to pay off over the long haul the cost of health insurance would be immaterial to you anyway. You might get away with it in your youth, or you might have a catastrophic loss and have your finances wrecked. You're often able to negotiate discounts for cash payment from providers, but back when I had insurance that excluded a pre-existing condition I ran into providers who stead…

> you might have a catastrophic loss and have your finances wrecked. If you have health insurance (in the US) and you have a catastrophic event, your finances are going to be totally wrecked anyway. You're likely to have to declare bankruptcy unless you are pretty wealthy. At least, that's how it's gone with every friend and family member of mine that had to navigate such an event. That's on top of the painful nightm…

[flagged]

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#74

Post by foco_tubi »

VirusNewbie wrote: post #33
ceejayoz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, selfish would be more like knowing it, being of reasonably sound mind, and doing it anyways. Being convinced of something by wonky brain chemistry isn't necessarily a personal failing.

My brain chemistry tells me i'm better than most people and deserve more. Is that...selfish?

No, clinically that is known as a delusion.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#75

Post by arjie »

foco_tubi wrote: post #69
arjie wrote: post #62

In my experience, one can always continue care if one is willing to pay. Insurance companies do not deny care; they deny claims for care. In fact, numerous times they make mistakes and deny valid claims. Only the healthcare provider can choose to not provide care: either because they believe they will not get paid or they believe you don’t need it or some other such reason. Considering this person has a high-paying j…

> One isn’t charged until afterwards This is not a universal billing practice, often clinic visits are billed upfront before meeting with the provider.

Let me amend it to indicate the uncertainty I intended here by saying “often”. Most of my experience with US healthcare is with San Francisco and Austin, so readers may wish to adjust their view based on that.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#76

Post by plagiarist »

foco_tubi wrote: post #53
socalgal2 wrote: post #19

[flagged]

On the contrary, the condition experienced by the author's spouse is direct evidence of a problem with the author's insurance provider, which in kind happens to be a widespread practice in the industry. US health insurance providers have pivoted from denying claims based on pre-existing conditions to denying claims based on lack of history of pre-existing conditions. Your links do not support the point you are trying…

Well that one is the classic far-right talking point that overpaying to be denied healthcare is preferable to the bogeyman of "wait times." Their other popular talking point is that with private insurance you can choose which doctor explains that your coverage was denied.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#77

Post by hobonation »

JohnFen wrote: post #36
EvanAnderson wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have enough money for that gamble to pay off over the long haul the cost of health insurance would be immaterial to you anyway. You might get away with it in your youth, or you might have a catastrophic loss and have your finances wrecked. You're often able to negotiate discounts for cash payment from providers, but back when I had insurance that excluded a pre-existing condition I ran into providers who stead…

> you might have a catastrophic loss and have your finances wrecked. If you have health insurance (in the US) and you have a catastrophic event, your finances are going to be totally wrecked anyway. You're likely to have to declare bankruptcy unless you are pretty wealthy. At least, that's how it's gone with every friend and family member of mine that had to navigate such an event. That's on top of the painful nightm…

Depends.

I got $300,000 in coverage for a catastrophic event and wound up paying $ 3,100.

But I did have good insurance with United Healthcare.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#78

Post by ceejayoz »

LoganDark wrote: post #61
ceejayoz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, I don't agree with the assumption that he was simply irrational and chose this because he wasn't thinking straight. And I don't agree with the assertions that that's not a possibility .

I don't consider it a possibility that state of mind would not have been a result of his mistreatment. You seem to recognize it can be brought about by situations, and I consider that reasoning enough. You don't have to perfectly calculate suicide as the only practical answer in order for your actions to be reasoned. Even primal reasoning can count.

> I don't consider it a possibility that state of mind would not have been a result of his mistreatment.

Why? There are very well treated people who still get suicidal.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#79

Post by socalgal2 »

foco_tubi wrote: post #53
socalgal2 wrote: post #19

[flagged]

On the contrary, the condition experienced by the author's spouse is direct evidence of a problem with the author's insurance provider, which in kind happens to be a widespread practice in the industry. US health insurance providers have pivoted from denying claims based on pre-existing conditions to denying claims based on lack of history of pre-existing conditions. Your links do not support the point you are trying…

They are evidence. you need care now. you don't get it. Regardless of the system. She's trying to claim there is some system where this wouldn't happen. There isn't. There is infinite need for healthcare and limited supply so some people will always be left out / denied.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#80

Post by jmpman »

anonymousiam wrote: post #57

This article makes a good case for the abolition of health insurance. If everybody had to pay for medical care, medical care would need to be affordable to survive. It's hard for me to believe that a doctor couldn't afford medical care for her husband. She just couldn't get outside of the box and consider that the treatment was more important than the cost.

An alternative approach would be health care for all - with the caveat that there is NO private pay option. The unfortunate situation is that that ultra wealthy have greater influence over the political process due to citizens united, and are also the ones who would benefit from lower funding towards public health care. With their ability to access premium treatment via a private option, their incentive is to use their political influence to lower public health care spending, without any negative impact on their own health.
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