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My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

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Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#21

Post by mothballed »

all2 wrote: post #18
recursive wrote: post #14

This is a far cry from the gravity of the post, but here's my personal anecdote about trying to navigate health care and insurance. A month or two ago, I was trying to set up a pediatric dentist visit for my son. Not a medical emergency, but a matter of some urgency. I spent about three hours on a total of a dozen phone calls or so. Some to the insurer, and some to various dentist offices in the region to inquire abo…

I've seriously considered opting out of health insurance altogether and stuffing away the obscenely priced monthly expense into an interest yielding account. Insurance is nightmarish, and I don't really want to deal with it much anymore. I know this might appear foolish, but fighting with a corporation whose incentives are adverse to my own (both on the medical side and the insurance side) makes me a little sick to m…

I did that for much of my 20s and very glad I did. You are basically used parasitically by the Obamacare system as it caps the differential between young and elderly to the point it's well into the expected negative value, and you're young enough that the off chance of the bet going bad only results in declaring bankruptcy on a few years of professional salary.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#22

Post by EvanAnderson »

all2 wrote: post #18
recursive wrote: post #14

This is a far cry from the gravity of the post, but here's my personal anecdote about trying to navigate health care and insurance. A month or two ago, I was trying to set up a pediatric dentist visit for my son. Not a medical emergency, but a matter of some urgency. I spent about three hours on a total of a dozen phone calls or so. Some to the insurer, and some to various dentist offices in the region to inquire abo…

I've seriously considered opting out of health insurance altogether and stuffing away the obscenely priced monthly expense into an interest yielding account. Insurance is nightmarish, and I don't really want to deal with it much anymore. I know this might appear foolish, but fighting with a corporation whose incentives are adverse to my own (both on the medical side and the insurance side) makes me a little sick to m…

If you have enough money for that gamble to pay off over the long haul the cost of health insurance would be immaterial to you anyway. You might get away with it in your youth, or you might have a catastrophic loss and have your finances wrecked.

You're often able to negotiate discounts for cash payment from providers, but back when I had insurance that excluded a pre-existing condition I ran into providers who steadfastly demanded the full list price (under threat of collections). It only takes one of those standing pat on a high 5 or low 6-figure bill to cause you to lose on your "bet".

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#23

Post by rayiner »

goda90 wrote: post #16
petilon wrote: post #7

Yes, there is something wrong with the insurance industry. But there is something wrong with the hospitals, doctors and drug companies too. The whole system is broken. Hospitals try to eke out the most out of insurance companies, often providing services that are unnecessary. Pharmaceutical companies charge US patients significantly higher rates than in other countries. Don't put all the blame on insurance companies.

>Randy needed immediate psychiatric care, and as an emergency physician I knew the options. We put our trust in the mental health team at a local crisis receiving unit, and they kept Randy overnight in temporary safe housing where he could be observed. By morning they had devised a plan to transfer Randy to a retreat-like inpatient psychiatric facility that was in-network with our insurance. The psychiatrist felt Ran…

> This is definitely a case where the insurance company holds the majority of the blame.

What facts are the basis of your conclusion? There is no health system in the developed world where a doctor's recommendation will guarantee expensive inpatient treatment without a layer of bureaucratic review.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#24

Post by OgsyedIE »

Lalabadie wrote: post #12
VirusNewbie wrote: post #2

[flagged]

If you want to direct blame, depression robbed all three of them of their future together, and their insurance allowed depression to progress until fatal. Hoping for someone to get ahold of themselves in the middle of mental illness is not an expectation grounded in reality.

Exactly. We don't use the above commenter's framing for schizophrenia, OCD or psychosis deaths for this reason. We just have a cultural programming to say that anything that isn't very visible must be fake.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#25

Post by ceejayoz »

LoganDark wrote: post #20
ceejayoz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, selfish would be more like knowing it, being of reasonably sound mind, and doing it anyways. Being convinced of something by wonky brain chemistry isn't necessarily a personal failing.

I feel like ascribing it to "wonky brain chemistry" serves to erase agency. I read the article and there are very real and reoccurring reasons of incredible mistreatment for why this happened. It is not because he was simply unstable and decided to try suicide for no reason. He had such a reason that I am incredibly disappointed in the entire system that led to this.

> I feel like ascribing it to "wonky brain chemistry" serves to erase agency.

Wonky brain chemistry can erase agency.

(As can an empty bank account from an insurance denial!)

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#27

Post by daheza »

As someone who just recently was re-diagnosed for active major depression after a major back surgery this article hits very hard. I recently discussed inpatient treatments with my psychiatrist too. I can understand what the husband was feeling... that the nothing of death was greater than the feelings of life. It's difficult to work with healthcare in general - add a mental issue on top of that and it feels impossible. You have to constantly advocate for yourself since each doctor will only do what is required for their subspecialty and you also have to fight insurance on the other side.

Specifically regarding mental related items are treated as lesser than physical issues. I have Kaiser who has actively been punished by the US Department of Labor [1](2026) [2](2021) for delays in behavioral health care and pushing for out of network therapist. They tried to push these therapist on me twice, both through RULA and it was really a terrible experience. The therapist literally ended my meeting 10 minutes into our discussion when I told him I hadn't finished reading the book he recommended. I am now with an in-house kaiser therapist that is working well. I worry about the psychiatric side of the house as well, they set me up to only meet with my psychiatrist once every three months. That doesn't feel frequent enough to get my medication tuned right.

I don't see this getting better in the future with the current leadership in the US advocating for a "return control to the patients" by reducing SSRI prescriptions. [3]

My only advice for people out there is to take their mental health seriously, if you are having suicidal thoughts talk to your doctor. It may end up being a difficult journey but its better than being alone.

1. https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ebsa/ebsa20260210

2. https://calmatters.org/health/2023/10/kaiser-permanente-cali...

3. https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/announcing-new-initiative...

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#29

Post by jgon »

rayiner wrote: post #15

[flagged]

You've come into this thread, which is about an article where a doctor talks about insurance denying care for her husband, ultimately resulting in his death, to basically say "This doesn't prove anything, and also in systems with government provided healthcare the same thing happens, the AI said so, so what can you do!?"

I just can't even imagine what your response would be to writing about your own experience in the legal profession, about a deeply hurtful or traumatic issue that happened to you, and then having some joker come in and post an AI transcript to basically say "I have no actual experience or expertise in your field but the bot says you're wrong".

What are you even hoping to contribute to this thread? You've done no work of your own, you seem to have barely understood the events described in the article, and you've attempted to immediately make it a political issue by bringing in a foreign government's healthcare system and deflecting. This is geniunely one of the least helpful things I've ever seen written by an ostensible "long-time contributor" to this site.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#30

Post by JohnTHaller »

The goal of their insurance company is to make a large return for their shareholders. And, thus, a large bonus for the C-suite execs. Their goal is not to provide care.

In this particular instance, the insurance company saved money to give to shareholders and their C-suite by not treating the patient further. They lose no money by allowing him to die.

This is all by design.

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