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European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

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Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#71

Post by snowpid »

rapsey wrote: post #63
kstenerud wrote: post #38

> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “r…

Yes all russia's fault. It has nothing to do with european governments and the EU caring more about climate change than the economy. More about third worlders than local population. More about policing racism than violent crime. More about extending the war instead of ending it.

"More about extending the war instead of ending it." Clearly this is Russia's fault. Russian troops could just leave Ukraine's international recognised area. Easy peasy.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#72

Post by scihuber »

mrtksn wrote: post #67
scihuber wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does free will have to do with it? I know a lot of Ukrainians, and many of them are disappointed in the EU’s support. Let me say it again: I have friends who are fighting, and they often blame the EU for the lack of support—there aren’t enough people, you see. It’s a meat grinder; they need more equipment and automated systems! Just imagine how hard it must be for them right now, with Russian FPV-drones flying a…

I don't think your friends are being reasonable, why would they think that EU should send manpower to fight Ukraine's war? I agree that EU should do more but EU also doesn't even have army. EU is currently doing things that it isn't even build to do, if eventually EU becomes a superstate then they can help more substantially but unfortunately EU isn't there yet. People expect EU to do much more that EU can do by desi…

No one is saying that the EU should send troops, but you need to understand that your security depends directly on all the aid you provide to Ukraine. Specifically, on the people who are dying and holding Russia back with their very lives! If they stop doing so, Ukraine will lose territory, and once it loses enough of it, Estonia, for example, will be next. And by then, you and I might even be fighting against the Russians.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#73

Post by snowpid »

scihuber wrote: post #64
mrtksn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukrainians don't act as a human shield for EU, if they wanted to be part of Russia they could have joined them(like Crimea and Donbas tbf, but since there wouldn't be claims on the Ukrainian territory anymore it wouldn't be a war). EU doesn't force anyone to fight for them, it enables those countries that are not part of Russia, don't want to be part of Russia and are willing to fight Russian aggression to eventually…

What does free will have to do with it? I know a lot of Ukrainians, and many of them are disappointed in the EU’s support. Let me say it again: I have friends who are fighting, and they often blame the EU for the lack of support—there aren’t enough people, you see. It’s a meat grinder; they need more equipment and automated systems! Just imagine how hard it must be for them right now, with Russian FPV-drones flying a…

Which country are you from?

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#74

Post by mrtksn »

scihuber wrote: post #72
mrtksn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think your friends are being reasonable, why would they think that EU should send manpower to fight Ukraine's war? I agree that EU should do more but EU also doesn't even have army. EU is currently doing things that it isn't even build to do, if eventually EU becomes a superstate then they can help more substantially but unfortunately EU isn't there yet. People expect EU to do much more that EU can do by desi…

No one is saying that the EU should send troops, but you need to understand that your security depends directly on all the aid you provide to Ukraine. Specifically, on the people who are dying and holding Russia back with their very lives! If they stop doing so, Ukraine will lose territory, and once it loses enough of it, Estonia, for example, will be next. And by then, you and I might even be fighting against the Ru…

I agree with you, Ukraine is essential for the European security and EU should do whatever they can to make Ukraine win but unfortunately EU isn't as integrated as USA yet, countries are still nationalistic entities and EU still needs huge reforms.

The American betrayal(as it is perceived) may push EU into becoming that but it's not there. At it's current form EU does the most it can.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#75

Post by snowpid »

x3ro wrote: post #24
4gotunameagain wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we will end up using those weapons against eachother, again. As if we haven't seen that film before. Or even worse, keep selling them to Israel as Germany is doing, because one genocide was not enough and two wrongs make a right.

I don't understand why this is being downvoted. It's not unreasonable to assume that increased militarization, coupled with increased nationalistic sentiment, could lead to inner-european conflicts escalating into wars. Sure, right now Russia is the enemy, but who knows what'll happen in ten years. And the military machinery is not just going to be scaled down immediately. If he's being downvoted for his "selling wea…

[flagged]

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#76

Post by leonidasrup »

danaris wrote: post #61
scihuber wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychologically, becoming a soldier will be difficult for everyone; if Russia launches an offensive against the EU, the regular army alone will not be enough.

> if Russia launches an offensive against the EU With what ? Russia has been wringing itself out to find enough soldiers to continue the war in Ukraine, and while they haven't been driven out just yet, I think it would be somewhere between "a massive stretch" and "flat-out untrue" to say they're winning . And by and large, the rest of Europe is farther away, has a much worse/less clear casus belli from Russia's point…

Don't underestimate the potential for a Russian dictator to cause suffering for his own people.

The war in Ukraine is currently in stalemate and for Russia the most deadly war since WW2, but Russia until now didn't execute full mobilization and full scale war. The cost of full scale war would be terrible, deaths in WW2 were counted in millions (for both soldiers and civilians). Russia didn't launch an offensive against the Europe (especially Baltic states and Poland), because they are still under US nuclear umbrella.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#77

Post by spwa4 »

flohofwoe wrote: post #41
kstenerud wrote: post #38

> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “r…

Russia doesn't really differentiate between right and left when it comes to trying to destabilize Europe, they throw random shit against the wall and then focus on what sticks.

They used to though. Russian money was destined exclusively for the far-left before 2015 or so.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#78

Post by spwa4 »

rainingmonkey wrote: post #56
kstenerud wrote: post #38

> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “r…

Do you have any evidence that Russian espionage backed the far left before 2006?

Are you really disputing that the Soviet Union used to back the far left in the west monetarily? Seriously?

And no, they didn't really change who/how they backed for 20+ years.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#79

Post by spwa4 »

scihuber wrote: post #64
mrtksn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukrainians don't act as a human shield for EU, if they wanted to be part of Russia they could have joined them(like Crimea and Donbas tbf, but since there wouldn't be claims on the Ukrainian territory anymore it wouldn't be a war). EU doesn't force anyone to fight for them, it enables those countries that are not part of Russia, don't want to be part of Russia and are willing to fight Russian aggression to eventually…

What does free will have to do with it? I know a lot of Ukrainians, and many of them are disappointed in the EU’s support. Let me say it again: I have friends who are fighting, and they often blame the EU for the lack of support—there aren’t enough people, you see. It’s a meat grinder; they need more equipment and automated systems! Just imagine how hard it must be for them right now, with Russian FPV-drones flying a…

Oh ... well the EU is not actually giving Ukraine much money at all. They are loaning money to them. The reward for Ukrainians' services and lives will be a century of paying back loans to the EU. Still better than being part of Russia, I guess, but.

Why "free will" is critical, is because before Russia attacked, the Ukrainian government had the sense to not in a million years accept such a terrible deal from the EU. As to how free that will really is when constantly under fire with Europe refusing to help it (despite things like the Budapest memorandum) ... is not being discussed.

This has caused a number of EU countries, like Poland and Finland, to decide that a nuclear program to get working ICBMs is a lot cheaper than counting on EU and US goodwill when they're attacked.

Ukraine is also doing a "Chinese-style" nuclear program. The idea is to get every component of ICBMs working. Ukraine, for historical reasons, needs uranium enrichment (it's either that or rebuilding two dozen nuclear reactors). So Ukraine is getting into China's/Japan's position right before they got nukes. Ukraine also has engineers that have actually designed working nuclear bombs. Meaning they're getting to the point that they "don't have nukes, BUT ..."

With the unspoken part being that they're getting to the point where they can have 100 working ICBMs ready to launch by next month.

So we'll have the Ukrainian government, armed with nukes, and a huge involuntary and very unfair war debt to the EU.

Should be interesting negotiations.

But the free will part is critical because without the "free will under pressure" Ukraine would never make itself so incredibly indebted to the EU. And we'll get to see nuclear interest-rate negotations!

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#80

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

scihuber wrote: post #62
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that Schrodinger Russia again: it is being stuck for years, unable to take some small village in Donetsk region, and simultaneously is a grave threat that looms over Europe, ready to quickly overrun their capital cities.

It’s not that Russia is strong because of its economy or its military. The point is that it is strong like a criminal, a mugger with a knife on the streets of Frankfurt. Or, if you will, a pigeon playing chess with you—it will scatter all the pieces and defecate on the board, then strut around like a winner with its chest puffed out. That’s Russia for you; it will simply use the dirtiest tactics that Europeans aren’t…

Thank you for proving my point. Great example of double-think!
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