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European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

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Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#51

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

scihuber wrote: post #48

I hope the EU population understands that Russia, the US, and China are essentially in a kind of military alliance, and that Ukraine is literally the only one openly opposing this alliance. If the EU wants Ukraine to shield it from drones, send more air defense systems. If the EU wants to end the war, give Ukraine more long-range missiles. If you want Ukraine to hold on, then spend money on rebuilding its infrastruct…

> Russia, the US, and China are essentially in a kind of military alliance, and that Ukraine is literally the only one openly opposing this alliance.

This is highly delusional. Don't you think that if the US and Russia were an alliance, the US would provide intelligence and communication to Russia, and not to Ukraine?

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#52

Post by mrtksn »

junaru wrote: post #44
mrtksn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not different things, "willing to defend" is just the prerequisite of "actually be able to defend". Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves. Look at Iran, how resilient they are despite decades of sanctions and their shitty regime. When things start moving people can move mountains, suddenly the unemployment goes to %0 like it happened with Russia, market forces get dominat…

> Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves. How can you type such nonsense? Look at 2014 Crimean annexation - thats "how good they defended themselves" without western training and billions in weapon aid. After four years they have million plus dead but "this is fine" for the west.

There was no fight in Crimea, Russians rented a base there and one day decided not to extend the rental agreement and that they own Crimea now. Most of the Ukrainian soldiers switched sides and joined Russia and it was over without a bullet fired.

So US may decide that they now own Germany because they have the Ramstein Air base but I don't think it will go as smoothly.

There are old videos from the time on Youtube, check it out.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#53

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

scihuber wrote: post #50
musikele wrote: post #3

speaking about defending ourselves: there's a huge gap between "willing to defend" and "actually be able to defend" ourselves

Psychologically, becoming a soldier will be difficult for everyone; if Russia launches an offensive against the EU, the regular army alone will not be enough.

Yeah that Schrodinger Russia again: it is being stuck for years, unable to take some small village in Donetsk region, and simultaneously is a grave threat that looms over Europe, ready to quickly overrun their capital cities.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#54

Post by rob74 »

junaru wrote: post #44
mrtksn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not different things, "willing to defend" is just the prerequisite of "actually be able to defend". Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves. Look at Iran, how resilient they are despite decades of sanctions and their shitty regime. When things start moving people can move mountains, suddenly the unemployment goes to %0 like it happened with Russia, market forces get dominat…

> Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves. How can you type such nonsense? Look at 2014 Crimean annexation - thats "how good they defended themselves" without western training and billions in weapon aid. After four years they have million plus dead but "this is fine" for the west.

[citation needed] - if I look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrain..., the only source that says that there are more than 1 million killed and wounded (!) Ukrainian soldiers is the Russian Ministry of Defense, which I wouldn't consider very trustworthy...

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#55

Post by scihuber »

mrtksn wrote: post #28
musikele wrote: post #3

speaking about defending ourselves: there's a huge gap between "willing to defend" and "actually be able to defend" ourselves

Those are not different things, "willing to defend" is just the prerequisite of "actually be able to defend". Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves. Look at Iran, how resilient they are despite decades of sanctions and their shitty regime. When things start moving people can move mountains, suddenly the unemployment goes to %0 like it happened with Russia, market forces get dominat…

Ukraine is essentially acting as a human shield for the EU right now. My friends in the SBU/ National Guard are terrified, even though they haven’t even seen combat yet. They’re stationed in a city that’s essentially 50% Russian. Even a civilian could shoot them in the back.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#56

Post by rainingmonkey »

kstenerud wrote: post #38

> Worryingly, European populists are espousing more assertively anti-Ukrainian views. Viktor Orban focused his unsuccessful election campaign to remain Hungarian prime minister on that theme. Meanwhile ECFR’s polling shows that voters of the far-right Freedom Party in Austria (FPÖ), the AfD in Germany, two far-right parties in Poland, and the governing and populist Progressive Bulgaria all see Ukraine as chiefly a “r…

Do you have any evidence that Russian espionage backed the far left before 2006?

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#57

Post by scihuber »

tjpnz wrote: post #25
shevy-java wrote: post #5

> Europeans embrace self-reliance and are clear-eyed about Donald Trump—but do not expect a permanent break from the US. That's a wrong analysis IMO. I think NATO as it was is completely dead. Europeans need a nuclear arsenal too (french and UK nukes are for those two countries only; that does not protect several hundred millions people). Russia is threatening escalation every day, including using nukes. Europeans ne…

Europe also needs to be in a position where it can quickly deploy the anti-coercion instrument[0] should a foreign power interfere in elections or threaten territorial integrity. The last time it was on the table didn't give me confidence they could. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Coercion_Instrument

Russia is already influencing your elections through propaganda.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#58

Post by knorker »

lyu07282 wrote: post #26
shevy-java wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would this make a difference though? The USA abandoned Europeans already before Trump. You only have to look at the polls. Thus, it makes sense to completely cut the ties, build up a nuclear arsenal and offset the mafia in Moscow. It makes no sense for Europeans to want to depend on the USA here; I have no idea who came up with that idea. Most likely the USA as it helped them project power. See how many bombing campa…

Well the establishment position in the EU is that Trump is an outlier and that relations will normalize once he is removed from power, then business as usual can continue. Beyond that broad agreement with US - EU alignment on foreign policy (NATO, Ukraine, Israel, Iran, China) must continue even under Trump. Trump is even seen as an opportunity to convince Europeans to increase its own "NATO compatible" military spen…

> the establishment position in the EU is that Trump is an outlier and that relations will normalize once he is removed from power

Is it? This is not entirely clear. And if it seemed the case, it's increasingly not looking realistic. It won't fully go back to normal, now that it's clear that the US is one election away from not only backing away from commitments, but itself threatening invasion of supposed allies.

A defense partner that sometimes announces that it's no longer an ally isn't really a defense partner, since The Enemy has the choice of when to attack and an understanding of game theory.

And as a reliable trading partner the US apparently has very poor guardrails for suddenly not honoring deals and established norms.

Turns out that the only checks&balances in the US political system is impeachment (which, as we know, is a political and not judicial process), and it's apparently impotent to protect against a rogue executive branch.

"This era could see the alliance seriously weakened – or irreparably changed" from the EU Parliament report "The Near-term Future of the Transatlantic Relationship". There's also https://carnegieendowment.org/europe/strategic-europe/2026/0...

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#59

Post by leonidasrup »

lyu07282 wrote: post #26
shevy-java wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would this make a difference though? The USA abandoned Europeans already before Trump. You only have to look at the polls. Thus, it makes sense to completely cut the ties, build up a nuclear arsenal and offset the mafia in Moscow. It makes no sense for Europeans to want to depend on the USA here; I have no idea who came up with that idea. Most likely the USA as it helped them project power. See how many bombing campa…

Well the establishment position in the EU is that Trump is an outlier and that relations will normalize once he is removed from power, then business as usual can continue. Beyond that broad agreement with US - EU alignment on foreign policy (NATO, Ukraine, Israel, Iran, China) must continue even under Trump. Trump is even seen as an opportunity to convince Europeans to increase its own "NATO compatible" military spen…

When Trump lefts the office, there is still the younger generation to replace him (JD Vance, Rubio). Europeans still remember the 2025 JD Vance speech at the Munich Security Conference, the message was clear: The centrist governments in Europe are not partners for Republican party, only the far-right parties.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#60

Post by mrtksn »

scihuber wrote: post #55
mrtksn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not different things, "willing to defend" is just the prerequisite of "actually be able to defend". Look at Ukraine, how weak they were and how good they defended themselves. Look at Iran, how resilient they are despite decades of sanctions and their shitty regime. When things start moving people can move mountains, suddenly the unemployment goes to %0 like it happened with Russia, market forces get dominat…

Ukraine is essentially acting as a human shield for the EU right now. My friends in the SBU/ National Guard are terrified, even though they haven’t even seen combat yet. They’re stationed in a city that’s essentially 50% Russian. Even a civilian could shoot them in the back.

Ukrainians don't act as a human shield for EU, if they wanted to be part of Russia they could have joined them(like Crimea and Donbas tbf, but since there wouldn't be claims on the Ukrainian territory anymore it wouldn't be a war).

EU doesn't force anyone to fight for them, it enables those countries that are not part of Russia, don't want to be part of Russia and are willing to fight Russian aggression to eventually be independent countries and member of EU.

May I ask from which country you are, you are talking of position that implies that Ukrainians don't have agency. It's a Russian talking point(that is "Ukrainians couldn't have chosen to join NATO and EU by themselves since they don't have agency, EU tricked them or NATO forced them to fight Russia, therefore Russia isn't the agressor but the defender here against the EU/NATO aggression").

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