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The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

lesswrong.com

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Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#71

Post by kleiba »

prmoustache wrote: post #67

Since having kids is so tiring in the early years and often lead to a divorce, it is better to have them early when you are still fresh and handle better the lack of sleep, divorce early and then enjoy part time parenthood when you are still youngish. I feel I am a better parent now that I am sharing custody of my kids and can better balance personal life and hobbies and parenthood. A cheaper option would be to find…

I had my kids late in life and I always thought my life experience was a bonus when it came to raising the kids and wrt keeping it together with the wife.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#72

Post by znpy »

bad_haircut72 wrote: post #49
jliptzin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone had kids at 18-20, then the grandparents could take care of the grandkids while in their 40s while the parents build their careers from 20-40, then start taking care of the grandkids as the cycle repeats

Peoples 40s and 50s are their most productive years. We would be better off just letting people take 10 years off in their twenties - but most people would just party party party (what they do anyway)

Given two parents, there are four grandparents. Sharing the load across six people is much better than sharing between two.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#73

Post by bdangubic »

kleiba wrote: post #71
prmoustache wrote: post #67

Since having kids is so tiring in the early years and often lead to a divorce, it is better to have them early when you are still fresh and handle better the lack of sleep, divorce early and then enjoy part time parenthood when you are still youngish. I feel I am a better parent now that I am sharing custody of my kids and can better balance personal life and hobbies and parenthood. A cheaper option would be to find…

I had my kids late in life and I always thought my life experience was a bonus when it came to raising the kids and wrt keeping it together with the wife.

Same and feel the same (in addition to financial stability) but oh so often I wish I had my kid earlier in my life

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#74

Post by ElevenLathe »

fweimer wrote: post #61
ElevenLathe wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that just make it a cheaper policy to implement, since very few will take advantage of it?

It still might end up as yet another thing we do to women's bodies.

To be clear: I agree that it's not great policy to pressure women into doing this (which, arguably, making egg-freezing free would tend to do), bodily autonomy concerns chief among them. It's also not great policy to withhold this as an option from poor women while allowing rich ones access to it (the status quo). The third option would be to ban it, but that has obvious problems too most notably that womens' reproductive health is already surveilled and politicized enough without adding another new crime to police for around it. Allowing it in certain circumstances (a "medical waiver" or similar) just reproduces that same issues as banning it, and would probably be just a waystation on the way to a full ban.

I've yet to see a good proposal for how to regulate or handle this as a society, so my best guess is that we keep the status quo (it's expensive so only rich people can do it) for the foreseeable future UNLESS it becomes some kind of culture war issue for MAGA, which seems honestly pretty likely. Presumably they would want to ban it, but allow exceptions for certain cases that amount to "but is the patient a married white woman with acceptable politics?" in a more legally palatable form.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#75

Post by rsynnott »

Aurornis wrote: post #48

This is an article that you need to read critically, beyond the headline. Even a few paragraphs down they say this: > The optimal age to freeze eggs varies depending on the source and metric, but almost all sources agree it's sometime between 19 and 26. So there's some heavy bias inserted already into the title. The next chart shows a peak around 19, but if you read the fine print it's not a chart about eggs at all.…

Well, the website is called lesswrong.com, and not correct.com.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#76

Post by prmoustache »

bena wrote: post #69
prmoustache wrote: post #67

Since having kids is so tiring in the early years and often lead to a divorce, it is better to have them early when you are still fresh and handle better the lack of sleep, divorce early and then enjoy part time parenthood when you are still youngish. I feel I am a better parent now that I am sharing custody of my kids and can better balance personal life and hobbies and parenthood. A cheaper option would be to find…

I have to ask, what's the custody split?

50/50

The main downside is relocating is impossible until your kids reach adulthood if you want to keep it that way so that is something to consider.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#77

Post by conductr »

phyzix5761 wrote: post #54
conductr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went through it with my wife too and expecting a 19 y/o women to go through the IVF process as an insurance policy is a bit insane to me. In our modern, western society, this is age is still solidly childhood with not much definitive thoughts of future family, marriage, etc. Governments need to make COL more affordable, birth rate will go up naturally

We definitely need better COL but I'm not convinced it's is the main factor for low birth rates as most countries living in poverty have very high birth rates. I think its a cultural difference that values earlier marriage and heavy family involvement in raising children which, the latter, reduces the stress of having to parent by yourself.

I think there’s a middle ground where in the US many people would be having kids around 30 if they could afford it. Our recent past reflects that. Even the number of kids have been reduced as the cost has become too high, so it’s not parenthood or responsibility alone people are avoiding. Comparing to poverty situations introduces a whole plethora of variables. Kids are seen more as assets than liabilities, as they will care for you in old age and/or can contribute to the household after the first dozen or so years. This is not really a comparison to the rich nations.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#78

Post by like_any_other »

delfinom wrote: post #45
stavros wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also the optimal age to not have children! You're still figuring out your life, probably no stable partner or job, time to do some stuff you'll regret later, etc.

Biological optimal vs societal optimal.

"Societal optimal" should really include consideration of whether that society can sustain itself.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#79

Post by Traster »

This article is answering a different question to what it is asking. It's asking "What is the most effective strategy to freeze your eggs if you're absolutely certain you will need to".

The reason women freeze their eggs in their early 30s is because they still have a good chance for it to be effective and they now have a strong idea they'll need to. You don't have that second piece of information at age 19.

Or to be specific: What is the size of the cohort of women you are expecting to freeze their eggs at the age of 19, who will use those frozen eggs. How many of them will give birth to children without the help of IVF, and how many will choose never to have children.

I think this article is a good example of rationalism. Which is basically getting very mathsy about 1 specific very of the data, without viewing the data in the context of the decision that is being made.

For example, what is the percentage of women you expect to freeze their eggs at age 19, who you then expect to be unable to afford the $500 every year to keep those eggs frozen over the next decade?

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#80

Post by projektfu »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #56
drakonka wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most 19 year olds probably wouldn't opt into injecting themselves twice a day for weeks and dealing with the side effects of the injections, then the subsequent extraction procedures (likely for multiple rounds) even if it was paid for. Which is reasonable, considering most women who want children will have them without IVF and don't need to go through any of that.

Doesn't that just make it a cheaper policy to implement, since very few will take advantage of it?

Then it's not a very good population policy.
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