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TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

thetravel.com

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Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#71

Post by ceejayoz »

kube-system wrote: post #44
mikestew wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just get rid of TSA and have no security? No one suggested that. What do you think we did 30 years ago (look it up if you have to)? That, and locked cockpit doors: what value-add is TSA over procedures from 30 years ago?

Airlines could have locked cockpit doors and prohibited passengers from bringing box cutters on their airplanes 30 years ago, but they didn't, even though hijackings regularly happened. When there is no coordination between airlines, none of them wants to be the one who implements tough security and pisses off their customer base.

> Airlines could have locked cockpit doors and prohibited passengers from bringing box cutters on their airplanes 30 years ago, but they didn't, even though hijackings regularly happened.

Yes, because in most cases the hijackers would demand you land, negotiate, and either get some sort of asylum deal or get shot. Big inconvenience, but usually not much bloodshed.

9/11 changed the math for the people on the plane a lot, from "sit down, be quiet, and you'll probably be fine" to "you are about to be flown into a building". Reinforced cockpit doors are one of the little bits of legitimate security improvement made since then.

Look how many on the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings end with "no casualties".

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#72

Post by rngfnby »

chaps wrote: post #30

I'm one of those weirdos who opts out of the scanners because I'd rather avoid having people casually look inside of my body. Last time I flew out of Laguardia I opted out and while I was being patted down another TSA agent about twenty feet away kept making kissy faces at me. Very much felt like intimidation. What a time..

We're not weirdos. The weirdos are the cattle walking into a microwave oven.

They ask me "would you like a private screening?"

Hell no! I need witnesses.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#73

Post by gensym »

idle_zealot wrote: post #58

There's no consistency in procedure from TSA agents. They're undertrained, unaccountable, and some combination of bored, disinterested, and high on petty authority. I don't think any amount of training or official guidance could improve the situation, though. The essential problem is the authority plus unaccountability or oversight. That will always go poorly for anyone subjected to that authority sooner or later.

Perhaps once AI destroys all the livelihoods of educated and disciplined white collar workers, it'll be easier for the TSA to find people who can follow basic instructions and show a normal amount of empathy.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#74

Post by lobf »

whatsupdog wrote: post #67
chaps wrote: post #30

I'm one of those weirdos who opts out of the scanners because I'd rather avoid having people casually look inside of my body. Last time I flew out of Laguardia I opted out and while I was being patted down another TSA agent about twenty feet away kept making kissy faces at me. Very much felt like intimidation. What a time..

I do that too. My reason is I don't want unneeded radiation. My experience is they make it as difficult as possible. They first ignore you couple of times, pretend they don't know what you are asking for, and finally they make you wait a long time, just standing there waiting for someone to show up to do the pat down. But I know their antics now and show up with plenty of time to spare.

Same. I have never gone through a microwave scanner on principle- I shouldn’t be strip searched for the crime of showing up to the airport.

I always get there plenty early and request a pat down, because they always make you wait 10-15 minutes in the hope that you’re desperate to get to your gate.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#75

Post by rngfnby »

whatsupdog wrote: post #67
chaps wrote: post #30

I'm one of those weirdos who opts out of the scanners because I'd rather avoid having people casually look inside of my body. Last time I flew out of Laguardia I opted out and while I was being patted down another TSA agent about twenty feet away kept making kissy faces at me. Very much felt like intimidation. What a time..

I do that too. My reason is I don't want unneeded radiation. My experience is they make it as difficult as possible. They first ignore you couple of times, pretend they don't know what you are asking for, and finally they make you wait a long time, just standing there waiting for someone to show up to do the pat down. But I know their antics now and show up with plenty of time to spare.

Whistling loudly helps too.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#76

Post by alluro2 »

formerly_proven wrote: post #43
MBCook wrote: post #13

I’ve been in a film photography sub on Reddit lately and the TSA comes up frequently. They can’t even follow their own rules on film, telling people it has to be scanned (it doesn’t), scanning is safe up 3800 ISO (that’s not a speed), etc. I’m not surprised they can’t get something important right. What if someone had to fly for necessary medical treatment? What if the device had been something even more important, l…

> What if someone had to fly for necessary medical treatment? E.g. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/02/disabled-can...

I always make sure to consider there are 2 sides to the story and details and nuance make all the difference in how the actual situation unfolded - but it's really, really, difficult to imagine a scenario in which something like this would be understandable.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#77

Post by sidewndr46 »

fzeroracer wrote: post #8
sidewndr46 wrote: post #5

[flagged]

From the article you said you've read: > Before passing through the device, the plaintiff spoke to another officer, trying to explain the situation, but was told that the AIT machine had been “adjusted” so that it would not damage her spinal cord implant.

[flagged]

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#78

Post by sidewndr46 »

SunshineTheCat wrote: post #9
sidewndr46 wrote: post #5

[flagged]

> I don't see much liability for the TSA here as you aren't required to follow their orders in any circumstance. You can be fined thousands of dollars for refusing to comply with a TSA agent: https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/disobeying-a...

The word comply does not even appear on that website. It says if you interfere you can be fined. If a TSA agent tells you to do something stupid and you refuse to do it, nothing is going to happen.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#79

Post by to11mtm »

SunshineTheCat wrote: post #26
MBCook wrote: post #13

I’ve been in a film photography sub on Reddit lately and the TSA comes up frequently. They can’t even follow their own rules on film, telling people it has to be scanned (it doesn’t), scanning is safe up 3800 ISO (that’s not a speed), etc. I’m not surprised they can’t get something important right. What if someone had to fly for necessary medical treatment? What if the device had been something even more important, l…

Yea I once had a TSA individual take my 85mm f1.2 RF series Canon lens out of its case and hold it up to the light to "inspect it." I said, "can you please be careful with that? It's a $3,000 lens..." The person cut me off and flatly stated: "Excuse me sir, I know what I'm doing..." The great thing is that if the person had dropped it, they would've faced zero consequences and I would be out a lens which was central…

I had TSA swab the front of my Sigma 100-400 because it purportedly came up hot. Will at least give that guy credit, he was gentler handling it than I ever am.

That said, yeah you would have been hosed for that lens, but I'm pretty sure they could still face consequences and you'd at least eventually get some reimbursement (less the time dealing with the process)

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#80

Post by sidewndr46 »

ribosometronome wrote: post #11
sidewndr46 wrote: post #5

[flagged]

The plantiff was coerced through the scanner by immensely incorrectly trained TSA operators. Had she done as you suggested, ignored the agents orders, and just walked through security she surely would have been, at least, trespassed if not outright detained, fined, and worse.

I never suggested she walk through security.
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