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Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

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Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#71

Post by earthnail »

ta12653421 wrote: post #45
NoiseBert69 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd more say: they made clear rules if you want to play business in China. Europe never set any boundaries. Honestly our fault.

Well, as European, i have to clearly state - unfortunately - this is only because of what happened in the 20th century: WWII. This "event" changed somehow the psychology, not allowing the EU to "stand up straight with our shoulders back". Unfortunately. With around 500m customers, we could be powerful. But we arent: Stumbling upon our own feeds.

The countries that comprise the EU had been among the biggest warmongers for centuries. The EU is the most successful peace project the continent has ever seen. And the reason for that is that every country refrained from trying to be a superpower on the continent.

The European mentality has real, tangible upsides for its continent. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work well in a larger world where other actors don’t share the same experience and values.

Just wanted to put that into perspective.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#72

Post by kataklasm »

anonporridge wrote: post #38
PeterStuer wrote: post #18

They are not wrong, but will they also ban Cisco in their "Sovereignty Push"?

Why should they? The United States honors international IP law and doesn't cheat its way into threatening domestic production of other countries like China does.

Ah yes, the country that has perfected industrial espionage... https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/960011/trans-atlant...

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#73

Post by [deleted] »

filloooo wrote: post #62
ta12653421 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is what most WEIRD people do not understand: (Western-Educated-Industrial-Rich-Democratic) - by today it looks like that the Chinese system may proof to be more "performant" on most/several (all?) levels. Its hard to accept for libertarian minds, i guess. Once here on HN someone wrote like: "democratic systems seems to be too slow to adapt in world changing at our current speed". China did some vey wise decision…

This JV obssession is weird, China basically admitted that they can never compete on ICE cars and bet on EVs instead, either this JV model doesn't actually work or what was transferred do not have much value. Now people claim they stole their IPs through JVs and that's why they are good at making EVs, this theory doesn't add up. Also, what China offered is a vast untapped market, no one forced these companies to go t…

[deleted]

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#74

Post by earthnail »

coliveira wrote: post #48
tharne wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only rule the Chinese play by is, "It's only immoral if you get caught".

I thought this law was invented by American business.

The Germans invented that too. That’s why the label Made In Germany exists:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#75

Post by filloooo »

jiehong wrote: post #12

Which company will design and make 6G telco hardware in Germany? I guess it will be 3/4/5G for a while, until they can someday cover the country just barely, and then 6G a decade and half later than everyone else (or is it by giving up sovereignty by buying US stuff instead?) Sorry for being hopeless, but Germany has been very good at proving its inability to fix telco issues (or its train issues…).

This is retaliation for China recently phasing out European gears, which should be expected after Europe already banned Chinese gears in effect.

China for years has been allocating a share of the market to European gears, considering their domestic offerings are much cheaper, this was basically a reciprocal gesture, but it's not needed now for neither side.

Germany has been reluctant to completely remove its Huawei gears, but now that German cars are losing ground in China, they probably felt it's time to make the move.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#76

Post by Krasnol »

daneel_w wrote: post #21
mannanj wrote: post #17

Why 6g? who asked for it? I am content with 4g, 5g was a push as it was.

You and I are content with it, but these standards were never really about our individual and immediate experiences. It's about concurrent capacity for the growing grid as a whole.

The grid must grow!

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#77

Post by esbranson »

PeterStuer wrote: post #18

They are not wrong, but will they also ban Cisco in their "Sovereignty Push"?

No. In the 2019 EU 5G Risk Assessment and the 2020 5G Toolbox, EU regulators gave three reasons why no US vendors triggered the "high-risk supplier" designation: US vendors weren't building the 5G core in Europe; EU regulators concluded that US law does allow compelled cooperation but accompanied by independent courts, adversarial process, and statutory limits; and no European regulator found technical-assurance failures in US vendors comparable to Huawei's.

If you don't like what the EU Commission is doing, you can vote them out. (Just kidding, no you can't.)

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#78

Post by ferguess_k »

peterlk wrote: post #63
kwanbix wrote: post #28

Nice, in 2025, the world is a place where China can not be trusted, Russia can not be trusted, USA can not be trusted, Europe can not be trusted, etc. We are very far from the "imagine all the people, living live in peace". I wonder why that is...

I’m working my way through “The End of the World is Just the Beginning”, and the main thesis is that everyone is preparing for demographic collapse. Global populations are declining almost everywhere, and this breaks the current global order. For example, what does the Chinese economy look like when all the people subject to the one child policy retire? What are the knock on effects of labor becoming more expensive a…

I think we are already seeing this happening as it is not rocket science. US is not willing to be the world police anymore, because it is more and more expensive and some of the elites and many ordinary people feel that they are not gaining much as return.

So this left and is going to leave a lot of power gaps around the globes, and regional wars are picking up paces.

China is not particularly happy about this, because it is not ready and perhaps don't even want to be the next world police. US has always wanted China to share the responsibility but China is hesitant, which is understandable. Plus most of the people in China do not want a destabilized world, for now.

What I'd expect that China will gradually lose steam (actually people on HN already observed since like 10 years ago) when the people born in the 1970s/1980s retire. The officials who are resistant to the idea of expansion (because it damages their power base) are going to retire then. I'd expect the world to be a LOT hotter then. So that's about 2030-2040 and might come a bit earlier as the other players are already moving the pieces(e.g. Russia).

Not sure how to prepare my family through that time, though. I mean, it's just my guess, so my wife just rolls up her eye and wants to buy more houses/stocks because "houses/stocks always go up if you look at the chart". What I think is that the whole economical-geopolitico logic is going to change forever, and what is gone is gone for good. The next globalization is maybe 50 years away but we will never see it. From hindsight, I believe the 2008 financial crisis was the turning points. They managed to drag it for another 20 years, which I send my kudos.

Again, just my guess. I have always wronged in the pessimistic side so I hope I'm wrong this time again.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#79

Post by wil421 »

thewebguyd wrote: post #69
anonporridge wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they? The United States honors international IP law and doesn't cheat its way into threatening domestic production of other countries like China does.

Cisco complied with the NSA PRISM program (Snowden leaks) and were putting hardware backdoors in their hardware on request from the NSA, for hardware that was destined for overseas. Sounds pretty untrustworthy to me.

So did the EU intelligence agencies and governments. You just route traffic through your neighbor so they spy for you and you do the same for them.

Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network

#80

Post by amelius »

coliveira wrote: post #48
tharne wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only rule the Chinese play by is, "It's only immoral if you get caught".

I thought this law was invented by American business.

American business has this law:

"if your business practices are not immoral, then you're not doing it right!"

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