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When the job search becomes impossible

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Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#71

Post by oefrha »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #48
pizzathyme wrote: post #13

> "You’ve spent several months sending out scores of carefully tailored resumes and cover letters for jobs you know you are fully qualified for and would excel at." People should not do this. It is causing so much suffering. In my 6 jobs in my career from college internship to startups to Big Tech, I have never gotten a job from sending an application into a site. It's always been through (somehow) tracking down a pe…

I've gotten several jobs this way, including the best jobs of my career. It's insufferable the way so many commenters here assume their experience is representative of or applicable to others. It's like if main character syndrome was a web site comments section.

Can’t even tell if this is satire. If so, good one. If not, I have no words.

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#72

Post by rwmj »

marstall wrote: post #49

So for an (employed) developer like me, who is dreading the next job search, what's a "hot" profession I could train myself on so my experience in the job market over the next 15 years could be like it was in the salad days of 1996-2022? (I'm making a pass at "learning AI" but don't feel 100% certain that demand for that will be sustainable at a high level over the next decade ...)

Well, I'm currently having a hard time finding a good electrician, and the ones who I have employed in the past earn pretty generous hourly rates.

(I say this half-joking, but also I know a DBA who retrained as an electrician and was happier than ever. It's the fact he retired - early - which has put me in my current predicament.)

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#73

Post by danans »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #24
pizzathyme wrote: post #13

> "You’ve spent several months sending out scores of carefully tailored resumes and cover letters for jobs you know you are fully qualified for and would excel at." People should not do this. It is causing so much suffering. In my 6 jobs in my career from college internship to startups to Big Tech, I have never gotten a job from sending an application into a site. It's always been through (somehow) tracking down a pe…

> A form is not going to a hire you, a person is. This is becoming less and less true. > You need to ignore the form and talk to a person. Unless you're lucky, this is no longer going to happen. Getting a job is now becoming much more about luck, circumstances, and who you already know, much like getting your first starring role in a movie -- not about your abilities.

> Getting a job is now becoming much more about luck, circumstances, and who you already know, much like getting your first starring role in a movie -- not about your abilities.

Getting a starring role in a movie has a lot to do with abilities, not just luck and who you know.

Many companies are looking for strong mission alignment, because when it's a buyer's job market, why not select someone who has intrinsic motivation for what you are doing? Are you passionate about the problem? That is a lot like auditioning for a starring role: do you understand the character you might be playing? Many jobs - especially desirable ones - use this sort of "mission alignment" as selection criterion.

The thing that's different in software is that because the equipment needed to demonstrate technical skills is so cheap (just a computer) and trust in representations of technical experience is so low, they can test for technical skills in a way that other industries can't.

I don't think that anyone asks a civil engineer to design a bridge or a surgeon to remove an appendix to get a job.

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#74

Post by DaveZale »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #70
DaveZale wrote: post #2

Hate to say the obvious, but it's all about supply and demand. The field I was working in 30 years ago was "hot" and the hourly wage has dropped at least 5x since then. Sure, in the last 20 years I did "development" work which was related but more advanced (24 hours a day stuff, it's always in your head) - but once those efforts were complete, so were the jobs. My field was laboratory science and I still take solace…

This only works if you had a good job and a decent amount of savings and no family to support.

or a dual income household. My wife and I have taken turns on who has the jobs with the benefits. Maybe you're right, maybe we're an exception. But I know educated guys around here whose wives work, and stay home with the kids, run volunteer .org in their spare time.

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#75

Post by throwawayoldie »

3D30497420 wrote: post #54
throwawayoldie wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think a lot of people simply don't know what to do with themselves when they don't have a job. I would be perfectly happy without a job. It's the income I'm concerned about.

Agreed. I have can think of about a dozen things I'd love to do if I didn't have a full-time job. Unfortunately, most cost at least some amount of money (not to mention food, a roof over my head, etc.).

As a friend of mine put it, "I don't know if UBI would take people out of the workforce, but it would probably take me out of the workforce."

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#76

Post by schmookeeg »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #27
pizzathyme wrote: post #13

> "You’ve spent several months sending out scores of carefully tailored resumes and cover letters for jobs you know you are fully qualified for and would excel at." People should not do this. It is causing so much suffering. In my 6 jobs in my career from college internship to startups to Big Tech, I have never gotten a job from sending an application into a site. It's always been through (somehow) tracking down a pe…

As other posters have said, this only really works if you have a network. Zeroth-order referrals (i.e. they call you) work best, first-order referrals (i.e. you know someone at the company) work decently well, and second-order referrals (you know someone who knows someone to refer you) are a guided shot in the dark. People who have networks all know this. The issue is that a shocking number of people don't have any n…

I job hop frequently, and have a large zeroth-order network because I did good work at each one.

When I am in a hiring role, I am not flipping through memories of good times with former coworkers that I had deep and meaningful time with -- I'm thinking back to who was the verb who got ish done and will make my project a success.

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#77

Post by tennisflyi »

pizzathyme wrote: post #13

> "You’ve spent several months sending out scores of carefully tailored resumes and cover letters for jobs you know you are fully qualified for and would excel at." People should not do this. It is causing so much suffering. In my 6 jobs in my career from college internship to startups to Big Tech, I have never gotten a job from sending an application into a site. It's always been through (somehow) tracking down a pe…

Ridiculous. So 99% people wait in line for the pizza but you waltz up to the counter and say you know the owner? That's fucked up

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#78

Post by abnercoimbre »

Yoric wrote: post #67
bopbopbop7 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need luck to have a network now?

Kinda, yeah. My first job in the industry was in a startup that went belly down. Most of us didn't get much opportunity to network. Thankfully, I happened to contribute to two open-source projects. One of them was a (then) obscure language called Rust and another one was Firefox. Both contributions eventually turned into career-defining moments for which I'm still reaping benefits 15 years later. Had I contributed to…

Vlang catching strays made my day.

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#79

Post by _DeadFred_ »

pizzathyme wrote: post #13

> "You’ve spent several months sending out scores of carefully tailored resumes and cover letters for jobs you know you are fully qualified for and would excel at." People should not do this. It is causing so much suffering. In my 6 jobs in my career from college internship to startups to Big Tech, I have never gotten a job from sending an application into a site. It's always been through (somehow) tracking down a pe…

This isn't true and is horrible advice.

Use the paths available to you to get a job. Exhaust them all. If you know someone that works there and THEY track you down, yes this is good advice, great way to get a job.

Re: When the job search becomes impossible

#80

Post by IAmBroom »

josephwegner wrote: post #46
calepayson wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And juniors. I’m in a masters program right now and everyone’s got a network, it just happens to be filled with poor starving grad students instead of FAANG super stars :)

Give it time. Networks are a garden that grow over time, and moreso if you cater to them. Some of those starving grad students will be VPs in 10 years.

That doesn't help them get a job this decade.
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