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Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

sdstate.edu

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Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#71

Post by yellowapple »

mook wrote: post #62
weaksauce wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the places around here are using compostable plastic bags. not sure what it's made of but it can be composted in municipal facilities according to the bag. one downside is they are green tinted and harder to see what is in there but if it removes some of the plastic killing the ocean then i'm for it... assuming it's not a plastic that degrades into microplastics.

> it can be composted in municipal facilities according to the bag Note that "according to the bag" is very different from "according to your municipality"; my understanding is that most places actually can't handle them, and they might need to divert your compost to the landfill if it has too much of those plastic bags. They can be composed under certain conditions, but whether the facility your municipality uses ha…

> See also "flushable" wipes that must not be flushed down the toilet.

That really should be prosecuted for false advertising. Just because I can physically flush Orbeez down the toilet doesn't mean it's safe to do so.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#72

Post by loktarogar »

exabrial wrote: post #56
loktarogar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is it doesn't have to be a complete solution to replacing plastic to be able to have some benefits to replacing some plastics. You can have local manufacturing processes so that it doesn't have to get stuck in a truck in Texas for a month. And there'll still be uses for the long lived plastics. You don't have to use one plastic for everything - like we don't today. Building a box that can last for centuries…

Bro I’m not agreeing with it, single use plastics are ridiculous. The failure in replacements continues to be what problems they solve for the supply chain. Unless you want to eat at Applebees, a small, locally sourced, organic, etc restaurant owner can’t conjure up a supply of biodegradable containers. But your local joint can order 5000 of them and keep them in a back room in less than ideal conditions for a year a…

Again, not all replacements need to replace 100% or even 10% of plastic use to be able to have an a positive impact. There's space for a short-life plastic just like there's (currently) reasons for long-life plastics

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#73

Post by jay_kyburz »

ars wrote: post #37
mrmincent wrote: post #26

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

The plastic bag also prolongs the life of the produce, which is the main reason I want it. Wasting produce is much worse for the environment than wasting a bag. After all if you don't litter the bag, throwing it out is pretty harmless.

we use these fresh and crisp bags. They sound like a gimmick but they really do work. We reuse a bag for months until its full of holes and not doing its job well anymore.

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/2824/fresh...

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#74

Post by yellowapple »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #22
loktarogar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't _only_ solve long-term logistical problems. Plastics are used for things like takeout containers, drink cups and straws, amongst others - things that are only needed for a short time.

All of those need to hold hot and wet things for long enough without contaminating them.

What contaminants would result from cellulose-based plastics like in the article? I'd guess probably things that'd at worst make the hot and wet thing taste bad, no?

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#75

Post by yardstick »

What about paper bags? In the UK retailers have to charge for single use plastic bags. Clothes retailers hand out strong paper bags for free, and charge for plastic.

Supermarkets charge for plastic bags. Paper bags for fruit and veg work well. They also provide quality reusable bags that cost a small amount (£1 or so), and people actually reuse them.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#76

Post by bschwindHN »

koolala wrote: post #66
squigz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not use a fabric bag? Either way good on you

Would be nice to have bags like that with their weight printed on them that machines trust.

Where I live they have scales that tare at the beginning as part of the process of using your own bag.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#77

Post by latexr »

mrmincent wrote: post #26

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

Why don’t you bring plastic bags from home? They are very much reusable, you don’t have to throw them out. They are also quite easy to fold into small shapes and keep on you, or your car, or whatever. I have plastic bags which have endured for literal years. I also decided early on that if I forget to bring a bag, I either do without or have to go back to get one. You start remembering really fast after a few times of forcing yourself to go back.

Another thing you can do is just take a cardboard box from some product in the store. This may depend on country, but where I live the shops leave products on their transport boxes on the shelves. Walking around the store I can usually find one empty box, or maybe one almost empty that I can move the products from into another box for the same product next to it. Then I just take the box and use it to transport my groceries. Stores just throw those boxes out anyway, so they don’t care if you take them (I have asked). At this point it’s a bit of a game for me, to guarantee I always find a box. I have a personal rule never do anything that would make the lives of the workers harder in the process.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#78

Post by amanaplanacanal »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #54
exabrial wrote: post #17

Yeah that’s the problem. Plastic solves a logistics problem, not a structural problem. Are your Twinkies stuck in a hot truck in Texas for a week? No problem!

They used to make it work with waxed paper. There's no reason why that can't be used for a large proportion of food packaging again.

I assume that anything sold today as waxed paper has plastic in on it, but I don't really know.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#79

Post by jfim »

mook wrote: post #62
weaksauce wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the places around here are using compostable plastic bags. not sure what it's made of but it can be composted in municipal facilities according to the bag. one downside is they are green tinted and harder to see what is in there but if it removes some of the plastic killing the ocean then i'm for it... assuming it's not a plastic that degrades into microplastics.

> it can be composted in municipal facilities according to the bag Note that "according to the bag" is very different from "according to your municipality"; my understanding is that most places actually can't handle them, and they might need to divert your compost to the landfill if it has too much of those plastic bags. They can be composed under certain conditions, but whether the facility your municipality uses ha…

I'd assume those bags would be okay considering they break down after a few days of holding compostable materials, and frequently make a mess in the compost bin. The "compostable" cutlery is definitely not compostable under normal household situations though.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#80

Post by yellowapple »

ars wrote: post #43
red369 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know much about this area at all, but it seems like it would be neat to have a plastic that stood up well to heat and moisture, but you could leave it soaking in some petrol/diesel/oil liquid, and it would melt into that and leave you with something still useable. As I write this, it sounds like I'm just describing something like petrol in a solid form at room temperature. Perhaps there's something a little l…

> it sounds like I'm just describing something like petrol in a solid form at room temperature That's what plastic IS. That's why it sounds like it, because plastic is in fact solid hydrocarbon. So not only is it not farfetched, it exists today, which is also why incinerating plastic for energy is the best possible way to dispose it. You remove the plastic from the world, you reduce the amount of oil pumped for fuel,…

> It's one of those environmental slam dunks with zero downsides

In relation to directly burning oil for fuel, yeah. In relation to other disposal methods, there's still the pretty major downside of being dependent on a non-renewable resource, in addition to…

> (Before you ask: Modern incinerators do not release any toxins from burning plastic, none.)

Greenhouse gas emissions are still an issue, though, no? Or do the incinerators capture that?

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