Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

commonsware.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 311 posts

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#71

Post by Mordisquitos »

beardyw wrote: post #60

I know I risk being down voted remorselessly but I have to put this in context. Where in the real world is anonymity considered ok? If I only put a flyer through someone's letterbox here in the UK, I have to identify myself. If I sell a physical product I not only have to identify myself but take on serious legal liability. An author can take on a pseudonym but only via an identified publisher. In fact that latter ex…

> Where in the real world is anonymity considered ok?

I am allowed to invite guests into my home even if their identity isn't pre-registered with my landlord.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#72

Post by csomar »

teekert wrote: post #19
userbinator wrote: post #5

This shouldn't just be "questions"; this should be a full-on opposition. Do not give them even an inch, or they'll take a mile. "debugger vendors in 2047 distributed numbered copies only, and only to officially licensed and bonded programmers." - Richard Stallman, The Right to Read , 1997

Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS. I only have Linux PCs (laptops) and servers, 100% of my work and personal stuff is done there (though for work I do need to hop into MS365, Google Workspace, Zoom, etc, hooray for browsers, my final firewall between me and the walled gardens, though we can have a whole discussion on that). For mobile, we have PostmarketOS, Phosh, Ubuntu Touch. I really must try living in…

Mostly because the "web" was sabotaged. I use archlinux and my only GUI application is a web browser. On mobile, I need an email app, maps app, food delivery app and a communication app. Even whatsapp doesn't work on the web (on purpose).

If the web was enabled, app stores wouldn't be possible and you could run anything without an installation. But somewhere along the line both Google and Apple realized that this isn't really to their benefit and "walled ecosystems" are an advantage.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#73

Post by rattyJ2 »

teekert wrote: post #19
userbinator wrote: post #5

This shouldn't just be "questions"; this should be a full-on opposition. Do not give them even an inch, or they'll take a mile. "debugger vendors in 2047 distributed numbered copies only, and only to officially licensed and bonded programmers." - Richard Stallman, The Right to Read , 1997

Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS. I only have Linux PCs (laptops) and servers, 100% of my work and personal stuff is done there (though for work I do need to hop into MS365, Google Workspace, Zoom, etc, hooray for browsers, my final firewall between me and the walled gardens, though we can have a whole discussion on that). For mobile, we have PostmarketOS, Phosh, Ubuntu Touch. I really must try living in…

I could be one of the people running an ungoogled phone, but my bank refuses to have an app that runs on an ungoogled OS for "security"

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#74

Post by cyberax »

microtonal wrote: post #41
charcircuit wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of AOSP is licensed under the Apache 2.0 license and GPLv2 for the Linux kernel. These are FOSS licenses recognized by the FSF. https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#apache2 https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLv2

I think that they are pointing at that using Android in daily life in a meaningful way requires installing Google Play Services because many apps require it.

You can use microG which provides a lot of Google Play Service functionality.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#75

Post by quikoa »

itake wrote: post #53

While I am against the policy, Google only publishes developer's full legal name and email address if the app is monetized [0]. If the app is monetized, then the full mailing address is shared. If money is involved, it’s fair for users to know who they’re dealing with. Developers who want to hide their personal identity can still do so legally with a shell company. Taking it a step further, if I am going to run your…

Small developers need to be easy to contact. Meanwhile Google is notorious for being difficult to get human support. Seems fair.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#76

Post by pjmlp »

microtonal wrote: post #39
Almondsetat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is 30 years old, and still it has a laughable percentage of desktop usage. Plus, the only reason it's even usable is because of the relentless work by thankless developers for reverse engineering device drivers. On smartphones this is orders of magnitude more difficult. How do you properly profile and debug a random modem in a phone? What about the cameras? So, how can anyone expect FOSS mobile OSs to ever exis…

This is 'easily' solved by following the Apple road - focus on one or two devices. I think many FOSS enthusiasts would be happy to buy such devices. (I am holding out hope for the phone that the GrapheneOS project is planning to make.)

This has been attempted multiple times, and always fails because followoing FOSS to the letter doesn't play with how hardware industry works, and when people aren't willing to make concensions they cannot ever deliver a product the general public would replace their Android/iOS phones with.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#78

Post by kalaksi »

cenamus wrote: post #62
cuu508 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps using the bank's website is an option? I don't have a banking app installed on my phone. When I need to make a bank transfer I sit down at the computer.

Don't know if it's the same there, but where live (and I guess all of the EU) most banks allow you to use the website, but require the phone to authorize logins and transactions (as 2FA basically)

I live in EU and my bank also offers a separate MFA code generation device

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#79

Post by godelski »

kazinator wrote: post #17
raverbashing wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman's fallacy is thinking every system is perfect and unbreakable and that people have a perfect understanding of software and systems (for better or for worse) People will be running pirated debugger copies if that comes to shove 99.9% of people DNGAF about OSS. They do care about doing what they need on their phone without malware/bloatware/nagware Also publishing and development are separate activities

I doubt that Stallman, of all people, thinks literally that. But systems which are breakable have ways of improving themselves, closing off the exploitable holes. So it makes sense to regard systems as being eventually unbreakable. Or at least having an unacceptably long "mean time between cracks". The game plan cannot simply be "oppressive software and hardware systems will always have imperfections so the good peop…

What an absurd ask. How is a $2.5 trillion dollar company supposed to make any money if it has to spend a bit of time on security? Did you even think about the economy?

Clearly it wasn't doing fine in 2018 when Apple became the first trillion dollar company. Nor was it when in 2012 when Apple's market cap exceeded oil companies, barely breaking half a trillion dollars. And the economy was definitely in shambles back in 2005 when no company even had a 400bn market cap! Seriously, how could the economy ever survive?!

Where would the wold be without all those innovations. Like the 2005 invention of YouTube, the 2007 release of the iPhone. Where would we be without such world changing technologies that followed with tech's rise in global dominance? Technologies like, Bitcoin, VR, and an even thinner iPhone? Do you even know how many peoples' lives these technologies have saved? Seriously? Because I don't...

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#80

Post by kelnos »

teekert wrote: post #19
userbinator wrote: post #5

This shouldn't just be "questions"; this should be a full-on opposition. Do not give them even an inch, or they'll take a mile. "debugger vendors in 2047 distributed numbered copies only, and only to officially licensed and bonded programmers." - Richard Stallman, The Right to Read , 1997

Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS. I only have Linux PCs (laptops) and servers, 100% of my work and personal stuff is done there (though for work I do need to hop into MS365, Google Workspace, Zoom, etc, hooray for browsers, my final firewall between me and the walled gardens, though we can have a whole discussion on that). For mobile, we have PostmarketOS, Phosh, Ubuntu Touch. I really must try living in…

> Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS.

In a way it's not. As you mention, we have several of them. But they won't have mass-market appeal until they can run the same sorts of apps that Android and iOS can run. And no, "just use the mobile website" is not an answer.

How do I deposit a check with my bank on my phone without the app? I can't; the mobile website doesn't have that functionality. How do I send someone money via Zelle without the app? I can't; the mobile website doesn't have that functionality.

How do I use contactless payments? I can't; the ability to build an app like Google Wallet or Apple Pay requires deep pockets and trusted payments industry connections that open source mobile OS developers will likely never have.

How do I use Google's productivity suite? I can't; the mobile websites aren't functional enough. How do I use Microsoft's? Ditto.

How do I use the remote-lock functionality of my car? I can't; that's only available through the Android and iOS apps.

I could go on, and on, and on, but I think you see the point. Many people who advocate for these alternative OSes don't get it. "Do you really need that functionality?", they ask. "Why can't you just do that stuff in a web browser on your laptop instead of on your phone?", they ask. "Just use a physical credit card like I do!" And then they wonder why their alternative mobile OS will never go mainstream.

People actually really care about those features and capabilities. It doesn't matter if the people who build these alternative mobile OSes don't care, or think they're stupid, or unsafe, or bad for privacy, or whatever. If you don't build what people want, they won't use your stuff.

Emulating Android sufficiently well enough to run Android apps is a decent start, but so many apps rely on Play Services and Play Integrity that it's a losing battle, or at best a cat-and-mouse game to keep things working.

On top of that, mobile chipset BSPs require financial commitments and being a Real Company. Most open source outfits can't cross that bar, and the likes of Qualcomm will be wary dealing with an organization that wants to do open source.

Post reply on HN