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Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

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Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#31

Post by dns_snek »

charcircuit wrote: post #25
teekert wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS. I only have Linux PCs (laptops) and servers, 100% of my work and personal stuff is done there (though for work I do need to hop into MS365, Google Workspace, Zoom, etc, hooray for browsers, my final firewall between me and the walled gardens, though we can have a whole discussion on that). For mobile, we have PostmarketOS, Phosh, Ubuntu Touch. I really must try living in…

Do not forget Android is also a FOSS mobile OS.

Android is not FOSS in any sense of the word and doesn't produce any user benefits that FOSS is meant to produce.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#32

Post by raverbashing »

_imnothere wrote: post #21
raverbashing wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman's fallacy is thinking every system is perfect and unbreakable and that people have a perfect understanding of software and systems (for better or for worse) People will be running pirated debugger copies if that comes to shove 99.9% of people DNGAF about OSS. They do care about doing what they need on their phone without malware/bloatware/nagware Also publishing and development are separate activities

> They do care about doing what they need on their phone without malware/bloatware/nagware Yeah you're absolutely right, tell that to Facebook/Instagram/Temu/TikTok/Pinduoduo/(any other _spying_ apps) users.

Their spying doesn't prevent anyone from using their bank app, or using other apps on their phone, or consume (too) much battery

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#33

Post by qalmakka »

This is intolerable. You own the device. You must be able to run whatever you want on it. Locking or limiting your access to the stuff you bought is not only unacceptable, it's basically like saying you don't really own anything. You're basically leasing a device until the OEM decides you can't run anything on it anymore. Would people accept if a car manufacturer prohibited you from driving their cars in certain places?

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#34

Post by p0w3n3d »

qalmakka wrote: post #33

This is intolerable. You own the device. You must be able to run whatever you want on it. Locking or limiting your access to the stuff you bought is not only unacceptable, it's basically like saying you don't really own anything. You're basically leasing a device until the OEM decides you can't run anything on it anymore. Would people accept if a car manufacturer prohibited you from driving their cars in certain plac…

Meanwhile: VW is already limiting horsepower when the yearly subscription is ceased to be paid

It's already happening. The greediness of vendors, the ignorance of users...

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#35

Post by LambdaComplex »

mettamage wrote: post #23
sschueller wrote: post #2

The requirement of verification to side-load any app is fascist control. It is clear as night and day. Shame on Google and Apple, it was always clear this was the end goal and next up is also your PC. Right after will come the removal off apps they don't like and there is nothing you can do about it. Stallman was right

I asked an LLM, so I think I get it but could you try to mention what is meant with "Stallman was right"? The reason I'm asking you and not posting the LLM answer is because it still feels a bit icky to post an LLM answer for everything I don't understand [1]. [1] Feel free to discuss this too, if you want. I'm developing my opinion on it.

Richard Stallman has spent basically his entire career trying to convince people that all software should be free as in freedom, so that people truly control the devices that they own--preventing things like Google being able to lock users out of the ability to install applications on a device that they purchased.

Read up on the principles of the Free Software Foundation if you want all the details.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#36

Post by teekert »

Almondsetat wrote: post #30
teekert wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS. I only have Linux PCs (laptops) and servers, 100% of my work and personal stuff is done there (though for work I do need to hop into MS365, Google Workspace, Zoom, etc, hooray for browsers, my final firewall between me and the walled gardens, though we can have a whole discussion on that). For mobile, we have PostmarketOS, Phosh, Ubuntu Touch. I really must try living in…

Linux is 30 years old, and still it has a laughable percentage of desktop usage. Plus, the only reason it's even usable is because of the relentless work by thankless developers for reverse engineering device drivers. On smartphones this is orders of magnitude more difficult. How do you properly profile and debug a random modem in a phone? What about the cameras? So, how can anyone expect FOSS mobile OSs to ever exis…

Because of hardware standardization Linux has become a pre-competitive layer, a commodity we have decided not to compete on. And it turns out that such a commodity by definition is private, because we don't want any one party to reap all the benefits of a commodity project (we'd rip it out before using it anyway), in the same sense that we don't want want 1 company sitting on all our water consumption data for example.

So, how do we get to a commodity layer for Mobile devices? It looked like it was going to be Linux (Android), and that was Google's intention. But now they are just using their significant resources to corrupt that original idea, using their trojan horse called "play services".

The public at large only cares about convenience, not about privacy. Why don't we? How much enshitification is enough to draw that line in the sand?

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#38

Post by charcircuit »

dns_snek wrote: post #31
charcircuit wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not forget Android is also a FOSS mobile OS.

Android is not FOSS in any sense of the word and doesn't produce any user benefits that FOSS is meant to produce.

Most of AOSP is licensed under the Apache 2.0 license and GPLv2 for the Linux kernel. These are FOSS licenses recognized by the FSF.

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#apache2

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLv2

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#39

Post by microtonal »

Almondsetat wrote: post #30
teekert wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS. I only have Linux PCs (laptops) and servers, 100% of my work and personal stuff is done there (though for work I do need to hop into MS365, Google Workspace, Zoom, etc, hooray for browsers, my final firewall between me and the walled gardens, though we can have a whole discussion on that). For mobile, we have PostmarketOS, Phosh, Ubuntu Touch. I really must try living in…

Linux is 30 years old, and still it has a laughable percentage of desktop usage. Plus, the only reason it's even usable is because of the relentless work by thankless developers for reverse engineering device drivers. On smartphones this is orders of magnitude more difficult. How do you properly profile and debug a random modem in a phone? What about the cameras? So, how can anyone expect FOSS mobile OSs to ever exis…

This is 'easily' solved by following the Apple road - focus on one or two devices. I think many FOSS enthusiasts would be happy to buy such devices.

(I am holding out hope for the phone that the GrapheneOS project is planning to make.)

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#40

Post by cuu508 »

whs wrote: post #14

I used to run Shizuku for my phone to run Hail (an app suspension tool). Now that my credit card bank start checking for USB Debugging I stopped using the app (and now my 3DS OTP has to be over SMS). I believe there's only two banks left in Thailand that do not check for one and it is just a matter of time, because any time these banks could have hired any of those "security" people who will ask why don't we block th…

Perhaps using the bank's website is an option?

I don't have a banking app installed on my phone. When I need to make a bank transfer I sit down at the computer.

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