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Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

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Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#71

Post by dvdhsu »

biznickman wrote: post #49
mattmanser wrote: post #25

When I was about 12 I remember doing some school craft competition where we had to make and then sell our wares to our teachers. A teacher said something to me that's always stuck, but I always struggle with following. It was "Don't point out your own short comings" I was saying things like 'in the final run the paint job will be better', highlighting the deficiencies of our Xmas decorations instead of highlighting t…

As we discussed in the comments of the post, I think I simply blur the definition of "lying". Stretching the truth, or purposely omitting the other side of the story is a form of lying if you ask me. Am I completely wrong here?

Aaron Swartz has a post on dishonesty: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/intellectualdishonesty

> Dishonesty has two parts: 1) saying something that is untrue, and 2) saying it with the intent to mislead the other person.

He goes on to agree with Feynman: there are times where we "should ben[d] over backwards to show how [we] are maybe wrong" [1].

Yet, Aaron later states that "intellectual" honesty is an "impractical standard" to apply to every-day life. Some occasions call for it, others don't. Unfortunately, where we draw the line seems to be moving towards the latter.

1. http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/cargocul.htm

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#72

Post by michaelochurch »

qq66 wrote: post #70
michaelochurch wrote: post #68

People are piling on Shirley Hornstein because (1) she got caught, and (2) she's female. The second of these is 90 percent of it. If you "trick" powerful people into accepting you as one of your own by claiming connections you don't have, and succeed in doing so, you've earned it. (If you fail, then slink away quietly and try again in a couple of years.) A lot of people are dumbasses who let the crowd make their deci…

Claiming that you worked at company X when you didn't is like claiming that you have a degree from a university that you didn't attend, and is one of the most clear-cut and common examples of professional deceit. I don't think this is a sexism issue at all -- look at how roundly Alexey Vayner was mocked. While I don't think the TechCrunch article was an example of charitable judgment, people are bloodthirsty and love…

The more I read up on her, the less I like her.

I agree. "Borrowing fame" is one thing, but claiming you worked at a company where you didn't is unethical.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#73

Post by michaelochurch »

paulsutter wrote: post #56

The most successful people I know are straight shooters who tell it like it is. Even the mild bullshitters I know are struggling to make anything happen. VCs will not hand over tens of millions of dollars to someone they know is a liar or habitual exaggerator. Sure, they don't always find out in time. But I really haven't seen that strategy work out. There is no benefit to telling a good story unless you actually hav…

The most successful people I know are straight shooters who tell it like it is.

Once you're successful, you can be that way. I think it's pretty rare that people get successful as "straight shooters". Telling the truth makes you a bearer of bad news a lot of the time. I know, because I've been described as "pathologically honest", and often it doesn't end well.

You can "speak truth to power" if you wish. Power already knows the truth. So the only thing you do, by doing so, is identify yourself as a threat, now that they know you know. And the last thing power wants is an epidemic of truth-knowing (i.e. a morale problem).

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#74

Post by pacificleo1 »

pg wrote: post #53

Every place full of ambitious people is full of liars, but I've lived in several such places and overall the ratio of lying to ambition here is lower than anywhere else I've found. There are a lot more posers in New York and LA and Cambridge than there are in SV.

same is true for india and other asian countries too

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#75

Post by paulsutter »

michaelochurch wrote: post #73
paulsutter wrote: post #56

The most successful people I know are straight shooters who tell it like it is. Even the mild bullshitters I know are struggling to make anything happen. VCs will not hand over tens of millions of dollars to someone they know is a liar or habitual exaggerator. Sure, they don't always find out in time. But I really haven't seen that strategy work out. There is no benefit to telling a good story unless you actually hav…

The most successful people I know are straight shooters who tell it like it is. Once you're successful, you can be that way. I think it's pretty rare that people get successful as "straight shooters". Telling the truth makes you a bearer of bad news a lot of the time. I know, because I've been described as "pathologically honest", and often it doesn't end well. You can "speak truth to power" if you wish. Power alread…

I've found that a lot of people will use "telling the truth" to rationalize a lot of negative behavior. We can all easily mistake our own uninformed opinions for "the truth". One way to learn the difference is to notice when "telling the truth" causes you to be misunderstood often.

The successful people I'm referring to were not bullshitters before or after their success. Bullshitting really not a success trait. It's a wannabe trait that ends up losing.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#77

Post by npguy »

The premise of the article is wrong. The post would lead to an argument saying every marketing effort is a lie. Which is a dangerous argument, since it would imply everyone trying to say "it cost me x dollars to do this. pls pay y" - in which case, no business would exist.

Everyone does a bit of marketing - big mac says total burgers sold a number that always goup. nothing wrong with that, IMO

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#78

Post by wesleyd »

dvdhsu wrote: post #71
biznickman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we discussed in the comments of the post, I think I simply blur the definition of "lying". Stretching the truth, or purposely omitting the other side of the story is a form of lying if you ask me. Am I completely wrong here?

Aaron Swartz has a post on dishonesty: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/intellectualdishonesty > Dishonesty has two parts: 1) saying something that is untrue, and 2) saying it with the intent to mislead the other person. He goes on to agree with Feynman: there are times where we "should ben[d] over backwards to show how [we] are maybe wrong" [1]. Yet, Aaron later states that "intellectual" honesty is an "impractical sta…

It takes two people to lie, Marge - one to lie, and one to be lied to.

  -- Homer Simpson

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#79

Post by wamatt »

ScottBurson wrote: post #38
mattmanser wrote: post #25

When I was about 12 I remember doing some school craft competition where we had to make and then sell our wares to our teachers. A teacher said something to me that's always stuck, but I always struggle with following. It was "Don't point out your own short comings" I was saying things like 'in the final run the paint job will be better', highlighting the deficiencies of our Xmas decorations instead of highlighting t…

Agreed. When I read Walk around any conference that startup founders are attending and you are bound to hear countless stories of how well things are going. I think, "Well, duh. You know, the truth might not be any of your business."

Always valued truth as a noble quality, that should be available to everyone who seeks it. This is an interesting perspective I hadn't considered.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Filled With Liars

#80

Post by anovikov »

I think lies are the nature of our industry: it is a self-propelled train, with each element of a chain working mainly to 'sell' everything to the next one, with little regard about its intrinsic value, more to the ability to be sold to the next one (which goes straight to the IPO, see Facebook). In the end, public and pension funds pay for that, so we are basically cashing out people's future pensions now (as we know, almost all pension programs are underfunded, mainly for this reason: their managers invest in shit, for the lack of anything else). This is much like how MLM works, except the last level (victim) is more clearly defined.

I am not telling things are totally that bad, but i am sure it is a big part of Silicon Valley success: it is a collection of top sellers in the world, and they are more successful in mortgaging other's future that everyone else.

People who are trying to play it fair are labeled 'lifestyle businesses' and ostracized.

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