Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s zero nuance required for China, it’s a modern economy and should definitely be held to modern standards.
There’s more to a peoples than the economy
Not in this context.
China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide
71–80 of 106 posts
Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide
#72The 44% mentioned in the data is actually composed of a large number of small family-run fishing boats, whose actual catch volumes are very low.In fact, China’s offshore catch (2.3 million tons in 2023, accounting for only ~10% of the global total and declining for three consecutive years) is far lower than its domestic aquaculture output (58.1 million tons).
People here don't care about the facts you're stating
Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tasmania produces a lot of caged salmon. It’s bad for the salmon (in terms of animal welfare) and it’s wrecking the local ecosystems. It’s not any sort of panacea. We need to stop destroying ocean ecosystems, not just shift the damage around. Overfishing of wild stock, habitat destruction through bottom-trawling and intensive fish farming all need to be properly looked at.
> We need to stop destroying ocean ecosystems, not just shift the damage around. Overfishing of wild stock, habitat destruction through bottom-trawling and intensive fish farming all need to be properly looked at. You criticise, yet don't provide any suitable recommendations or alternatives. People like to eat fish and have done so since the beginning of our species.
Just eat the fish that's available in your waters.
Unless you're landlocked and your rivers have gone to shit too.
Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
JP/SKR/TW all does it brazenly (i.e. pacific / south american EEZs), SKR/TW also with their share of slave labor. They just don't get reported on, or analysis will include them but MSM that inevitably regurgitates these "analysis" will downplay / leave them out. And relative to other DWF / wild catch, PRC catches less per capita... so they're poluting less. See approaching 80% agraculture share. PRC basically the mos…
Sorry - the thing that comes to the front of my mind is trawling all the way in Ecuador, a world over. You’re saying Japan does that as well?
AFAIK JP doesn't trawl, they're big on transhipment, i.e. PRC, TW, SKR, Spain does stuff off Ecuador, Peru, Argentina and there's shadiness with moving haul to JP transhipment reefers (big fridge boat) i.e. offload catch so they can fish in region longer, JP basically launders, they're part of the IUU ecosystem. Also trawling all the way over in Ecuador / Peru reports are basically weasle words for saying mostly legimitately fishing in international waterx - the reports will have most DWF ships just outside of EEZ, and small % of which may pop in with AIS drama, because there's always going to be bad apples.
Bad apples usually measured by AIS disabling events... in which case, pre US propaganda drive against PRC I think worst culprits (highest proportion of ships/time) was Spain, something like 15% of activity obscured, then US with high single digits, then TW, slightly higher than PRC, I think 5%. US gets a pass because it's mostly in North West Atlantic aka, US backyard... which well, US just has a big ass EEZ backyard vs PRC has essentially smallest EEZ relative to country size, so PRC _has_ to fish on commons/highseas/international waters (including near countries EEZs where the catch is). Not much info on JP or SKR except SKR is in all the places PRC/TW/SP is in, and have all the shady forced labour issues, so hard to believe they don't also have AIS misbehavior. IIRC some other interesting tidbits is AIS disabling behaviour also sorted by ship type... and the types of ships that have worst/longest AIS disabling are tuna longliner... implicating JP.
But the otherwise TLDR is ever since US thinktanks decided to hammer PRC IUU to the exclusin of everyone else (read US allies/partners), PRC DWF somehow grew 10x and AIS behavior exploded... but even then it's dumb shit like PRC is 80% of fleet off XYZ country EEZ but responsible for 90% of AIS anomolies, i.e. marginally worse.
Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide
#75FWIW, China also produces enormous (enormous) quantities of seafood from caged underwater oceanic farms. It's the future of fishing IMHO. The rich, everywhere in the world, will continue to seek wild-caught though. (While they publicly rail against the poor eating wild-caught. Such is how the wheels turn.).
> While they publicly rail against the poor eating wild-caught. Example?
Weekly multi-ton carbon-footprint private jet trips for me, cardboard drinking straws for thee.
Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
When should the tax stop being raised? The solution is not to make it so only the rich can eat fish, beef, etc. This idea is only ever proposed by people who think they will always be able to afford it or people who think no one should be able to enjoy animal meat.
When it has reached the cost of renewing the resource. Taxing externalities isn't about "guaranteeing everyone can have access to the resource": that's circular. Taxing externalities is about ensuring that those who profit from a public good, also pay the public for the value of that good. Hypothetical: If tomorrow it turns out that eating beef is somehow the ultimate cause of environmental destruction, and every cow…
The solution to fossil fuels was not make gas cost 20 dollars a gallon (or an imagined unbounded amount) so only people who really need to drive can afford it. It was serious research into many different forms of energy. There are many old people who have their lively hoods tied to the fact that we ignore the science, but we do have solutions.
Propose some kind of research into lab grown meat, extremely cheap feed, or some unthought of billion dollar idea solution.
Rich get to enjoy something that all of humanity has enjoyed for the entirety of human existence will never be a solution people take seriously.
Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
When it has reached the cost of renewing the resource. Taxing externalities isn't about "guaranteeing everyone can have access to the resource": that's circular. Taxing externalities is about ensuring that those who profit from a public good, also pay the public for the value of that good. Hypothetical: If tomorrow it turns out that eating beef is somehow the ultimate cause of environmental destruction, and every cow…
The solution to fossil fuels was not make gas cost 20 dollars a gallon (or an imagined unbounded amount) so only people who really need to drive can afford it. It was serious research into many different forms of energy. There are many old people who have their lively hoods tied to the fact that we ignore the science, but we do have solutions. Propose some kind of research into lab grown meat, extremely cheap feed, o…
Actually in a lot of places the attempted solution was to put steadily escalating taxes on 'gas', to try to make people drive less. That plus put restrictions on vehicle efficiency to drive down fuel use, which can also be argued to push up car prices.
And look where that rather gentle approach got us - we've had decades of people knowing there's a climate crisis coming and here we are still burning fossil fuels for power.
> Rich get to enjoy something that all of humanity has enjoyed for the entirety of human existence will never be a solution people take seriously.
So in your mind it is better to drive the seas to complete destruction than to limit catches and thereby push up the price?
You know this is self-limiting, right? In that if we kill everything in the seas, those people still won't get cheap fish, and the 'rich' will eat the last few at great expense?
Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide
#78Another year another DC China IUU "the worst" propaganda piece, except this time more stupid - already inflated esimate of PRC DWF fleet last year was 18000... now 32000 kek. It's hilarious to see PRC DWF inflation from 3000 in 2020 to 6000 to 18000 and now 32000 in 5 years. PRC ship building is incredible, but damn /s. PRC wild catch was like 12m in 2020... and 15m in 2024... but somehow catching that extra 3m requi…
Yes. It is higly manipulative. But people are licking it up. It is kinda scary how effective these Washington think tanks are manufacturing consent for a naval confrontation with China.
Mostly pacific / south america focused to get US coastguard in there and build public opinion against PRC fishing... which is really proxy for hosting PRC ships, aka, imo foot in door to other docking relationships... like PLANavy. PRC economic integration with most of South America and Pacific Islands is almost forgone at this point, PRC trade/influence with these regions going to continue to grow, but prudent for US to hammer against fishing to at least spike efforts at any naval cooperation. Imagery of a Chinese destroyer docking in South America is domestically poison if muh Chinese dark fleet is raping the waters and only USCG is there to save the day. Except seems like PRC won the staring contest. TLDR is US started USCG campaign vs PRC DWF in early 2020s around Ecuador / Galapagos, tried to escalate to boarding a couple PRC DWF vessels to in 2022 in high seas... which PRC rejected... US tried to blacklist said PRC vessels from fishing in area, PRC procedrually lawfared around blacklist (search for SPRFMO drama)... and it's been status quo since, AFAIK no more attempted USCG boarding of PRC DWF, especially on highseas, at least publically.
Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide
#79Re: China Dominates 44% of Visible Fishing Activity Worldwide
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
When it has reached the cost of renewing the resource. Taxing externalities isn't about "guaranteeing everyone can have access to the resource": that's circular. Taxing externalities is about ensuring that those who profit from a public good, also pay the public for the value of that good. Hypothetical: If tomorrow it turns out that eating beef is somehow the ultimate cause of environmental destruction, and every cow…
The solution to fossil fuels was not make gas cost 20 dollars a gallon (or an imagined unbounded amount) so only people who really need to drive can afford it. It was serious research into many different forms of energy. There are many old people who have their lively hoods tied to the fact that we ignore the science, but we do have solutions. Propose some kind of research into lab grown meat, extremely cheap feed, o…
I take a lifecycle view. Early on, public subsidy of research is necessary. US President Carter and the Germans did a good job with that for solar. When you have a mature product 50 years later, that's when tax policy and/or industrial policy becomes more impactful. Industry itself is doing most of the innovating at this late stage, so you want policy to nudge existing consumers towards the preferred substitute. None of these policies are competing with one another, they are complementary. You can even use the tax revenue to fund the early-stage research of other moonshot technologies.