Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

pnas.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 152 posts

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#71

Post by pogue »

keernan wrote: post #59

I've suffered with social anxiety for a very long time. Thirty years ago a doctor prescribed a MAOI which immediately transformed me into a social butterfly (which in hindsight was a very difficult transition). This forever proved to me what the doctor had told me: it is all about chemical balance in the brain. The problem, of course, was the danger. I could die within minutes if I ate fermented food without taking t…

That's quite interesting. In my experience, I've suffered from severe anxiety and depression my entire adult life. I spent years working with a psychiatrist trying every SSRI on the market. None of them seemed to help in the slightest, until I asked to try Eldepryl (selegiline), an MAO-B. It helps greatly with depression, but hasn't helped with anxiety. An MAO-B has the advantage of not having any issue with tyramine (the cheese effect) that you're referring to.

I've never heard of Nardil, but I'll have to look into it.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#72

Post by afro88 »

My social anxiety sky rocketed at 19 and didn't start to settle down until 23/24. I never knew exactly why, and that's always troubled me a bit. A microbe population getting out of hand sounds possible, as my diet and surroundings changed drastically at 19. Interesting stuff.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#73

Post by ninetyninenine »

asdff wrote: post #38
ninetyninenine wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entry point to the gut is from the mouth so because of that, I think food is where most of the gut bacteria comes from.

You have a back door as well for the gut that tends to open at least once a day. We know fecal matter is in the air in most bathrooms. It wouldn't surprise me if you got an infusion of community fecal biome right into your anus every time you used a restroom that isn't your own.

Yes but usually when the back door opens things are exiting the gut rather then going in. So I don’t think that counts.

There are cases where things do enter the back door but I think that’s just humans getting creative and it wasn’t designed for entry.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#75

Post by xdavidliu »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #60
Tarsul wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you substitute your fruits with vegetables? Maybe I should try it as well but then again my daily apple is one of my highlights.

The most direct substitution was cheese, lactose does not appear to have the same effect on me as fructose or sucrose. I mostly eat kale for vegetables, this also helps with subclinical insulin resistance and inflammation. I think roasting vegetables may end up being too sweet. I did an extended 5 day water fast to kick start the microbiome changes I undertook it as an experiment and the effectiveness in lifting brai…

i thought most cheese has way less lactose, if any, than milk?

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#76

Post by xdavidliu »

reliablereason wrote: post #67
Tarsul wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am talking about the sugar in sweets. My daily apple does not appear to heighten my anxiety.

I have heard people say that eating fibers together with fructose(like when eating a apple) reduces the impact of fructose, as fibers create a lining on the gut wall reducing the absorption rate. Sounds reasonable. But i have had a hard time finding evidence verifying that hypotesis.

i'm pretty sure this saying is well agreed upon by the mainstream medical community. (not a medical pro myself, but follow a lot of articles and podcasts from mainstream sources)

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#77

Post by edwcross »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #60
Tarsul wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you substitute your fruits with vegetables? Maybe I should try it as well but then again my daily apple is one of my highlights.

The most direct substitution was cheese, lactose does not appear to have the same effect on me as fructose or sucrose. I mostly eat kale for vegetables, this also helps with subclinical insulin resistance and inflammation. I think roasting vegetables may end up being too sweet. I did an extended 5 day water fast to kick start the microbiome changes I undertook it as an experiment and the effectiveness in lifting brai…

Would you mind citing which kind of cheese you eat? Because much cheese has little to no lactose, and also goat lactose does not necessarily have the same effect as cow lactose. Finally, the fats and proteins in cheese affect digestion and possibly sugar absorption.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#78

Post by saltcured »

MarkusQ wrote: post #62
amelius wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beneficial for the group, not the individual, I suppose.

Which is to say, maladaptive. Despite all the people wishing evolution worked at the group level, it doesn't. Groups don't have offspring, individuals do, and thus things that are bad for the individual are extinguished regardless of their effect on the group. If you look closely enough, even individuals aren't the true units of evolution, for the same reason; competing alleles is where the real action is.

When thinking about evolutionary forces, you cannot conflate "positive" outcome with survival and reproduction. An individual might survive and produce offspring via effects that make the individual unhappy in their own life and/or with shortened life.

It's only when an effect causes death or infertility prior to normal reproductive phases that we can really say it has a direct evolutionary pressure. Anything that happens later is always going to be through secondary, social effects on how their condition supports or hinders their offspring from reproducing further generations.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#79

Post by cjbgkagh »

edwcross wrote: post #77
cjbgkagh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most direct substitution was cheese, lactose does not appear to have the same effect on me as fructose or sucrose. I mostly eat kale for vegetables, this also helps with subclinical insulin resistance and inflammation. I think roasting vegetables may end up being too sweet. I did an extended 5 day water fast to kick start the microbiome changes I undertook it as an experiment and the effectiveness in lifting brai…

Would you mind citing which kind of cheese you eat? Because much cheese has little to no lactose, and also goat lactose does not necessarily have the same effect as cow lactose. Finally, the fats and proteins in cheese affect digestion and possibly sugar absorption.

Honestly when battling sugar cravings it would be rather large chunks of parmesan cheese because I find it rather sweet. I assumed that was due to lactose but perhaps I'm wrong about that. It could also be that even a small amount of lactose tastes sweet after a while of not eating sugar.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#80

Post by basisword »

afro88 wrote: post #72

My social anxiety sky rocketed at 19 and didn't start to settle down until 23/24. I never knew exactly why, and that's always troubled me a bit. A microbe population getting out of hand sounds possible, as my diet and surroundings changed drastically at 19. Interesting stuff.

>> surroundings changed drastically at 19

Couldn't this be the easier explanation? People at that age tend to move away from home, go to college or start work - all big changes, all highly social and potentially stressful changes. Mental health issues leading on from this is understandable and anecdotally I've saw it in several friends.

Post reply on HN