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What happens when people don't understand how AI works

theatlantic.com

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Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#71
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very wise but doesn’t seem to describe any of my use cases. Maybe some use cases are divination but it is a stretch to call all of them that. Just looking at my recent AI prompts: I was looking for the name of the small fibers which form a bird’s feather. ChatGPT told me they are called “barbs”. Then using straight forward google search i could verify that indeed that is the name of the thing i was lookin…

Sure, some people stepped up to the Oracle and asked how to conquer Persia. Others probably asked where they left their sandals. The quality of the question doesn't change the structure of the act. You presented clear, factual queries. Great. But even there, all the components are still in play: you asked a question into a black box, received a symbolic-seeming response, evaluated its truth post hoc, and interpreted…

I always like to compare tongue in cheek, llm's with I-ching

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#72
post #18

I agree with the substance, but would argue the author fails to "understand how AI works" in an important way: LLMs are impressive probability gadgets that have been fed nearly the entire internet, and produce writing not by thinking but by making statistically informed guesses about which lexical item is likely to follow another Modern chat-tuned LLMs are not simply statistical models trained on web scale datasets.…

I don't think those of us who don't work at OpenAI, Google, etc. have enough information to accurately estimate the influence of instruction tuning on the capabilities or the general "feel" of LLMs (it's really a pity that no one releases non-instruction-tuned models anymore). Personally my inaccurate estimate is much lower than yours. When non-instruction tuned versions of GPT-3 were available, my perception is that…

instruction tuning is like imprimating the chat ux into the models weights

its all about the user/assistant flow instead of just a -text generator- after it

and the assistant always tries to please the user.

they built a sychopantic machine either by mistake or malfeasance

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are paying hundreds of dollars a month for these tools, often out of their personal pocket. That's a pretty robust indicator that something interesting is going on.

One thing these models are extremely good at is reading large amounts of text quickly and summarizing important points. That capability alone may be enough to pay $20 a month for many people.

Not just summarizing, but also being able to answer follow-up questions about what is in the text.

And, like Wikipedia, they can be useful to find your bearing in a subject that you know nothing about. Unlike Wikipedia, you can ask it free-form questions and have it review your understanding.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing these models are extremely good at is reading large amounts of text quickly and summarizing important points. That capability alone may be enough to pay $20 a month for many people.

Not just summarizing, but also being able to answer follow-up questions about what is in the text. And, like Wikipedia, they can be useful to find your bearing in a subject that you know nothing about. Unlike Wikipedia, you can ask it free-form questions and have it review your understanding.

I keep hearing anecdotes but the data, like a widely covered BBC study, say they only compress and shorten and routinely fail outside of testing on real world selection of only the most important content or topics.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#75

The thesis is spot on with why I believe many skeptics remain skeptics: > To call AI a con isn’t to say that the technology is not remarkable, that it has no use, or that it will not transform the world (perhaps for the better) in the right hands. It is to say that AI is not what its developers are selling it as: a new class of thinking—and, soon, feeling—machines. Of course some are skeptical these tools are useful…

A lot of the claims of usefulness evaporate when tested. The word useful has many meanings. Perhaps their only reliable use will be the rubber duck effect.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#76
The article skirts around a central question: what defines humans? Specifically, intelligence and emotions?

The entire article is saying "it looks kinds like a human in some ways, but people are being fooled!"

You can't really say that without at least attempting the admittedly very deep question of what an authentic human is.

To me, it's intelligent because I can't distinguish its output from a person's output, for much of the time.

It's not a human, because I've compartmentalized ChatGPT into its own box and I'm actively disbelieving. The weak form is to say I don't think my ChatGPT messages are being sent to the 3rd world and answered by a human, though I don't think anyone was claiming that.

But it is also abundantly clear to me that if you stripped away the labels, it acts like a person acts a lot of the time. Say you were to go back just a few years, maybe to covid. Let's say OpenAI travels back with me in a time machine, and makes an obscure web chat service where I can write to it.

Back in covid times, I didn't think AI could really do anything outside of a lab, so I would not suspect I was talking to a computer. I would think I was talking to a person. That person would be very knowledgeable and able to answer a lot of questions. What could I possibly ask it that would give away that it wasn't real person? Lots of people can't answer simple questions, so there isn't really a way to ask it something specific that would work. I've had perhaps one interaction with AI that would make it obvious, in thousands of messages. (On that occasion, Claude started speaking Chinese with me, super weird.)

Another thing that I hear from time to time is an argument along the line of "it just predicts the next word, it doesn't actually understand it". Rather than an argument against AI being intelligent, isn't this also telling us what "understanding" is? Before we all had computers, how did people judge whether another person understood something? Well, they would ask the person something and the person would respond. One word at a time. If the words were satisfactory, the interviewer would conclude that you understood the topic and call you Doctor.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#78
post #67

LLMs are divinatory instruments, our era's oracle, minus the incense and theatrics. If we were honest, we'd admit that "artificial intelligence" is just a modern gloss on a very old instinct: to consult a higher-order text generator and search for wisdom in the obscure. They tick all the boxes: oblique meaning, a semiotic field, the illusion of hidden knowledge, and a ritual interface. The only reason we don't call i…

> we were honest I am quite honest and the subset of users that fill your description - unconsciously treating text from deficient authors as tea leaves - have psychiatric issues. Surely many people consult LLMs because of the value within their right answers, which exist owing to having encoded information and some emergent idea processing, and attempting to tame the wrong ones. They consult LLMs because that's what…

> value within their right answers

The thing is that LLMs provide plenty of answers where "right" is not a verifiable metric. Even in coding the idea of a "right" answer quickly gets fuzzy- should I use CSS grid or flexbox here? should these tables be normalized or not?

People simply have an unconscious bias towards the output just like they have an unconscious bias towards the same answer given by two real people they feel differently about- That is, the sort of thing all humans do (even if you swear that in all cases you are 100% impartial and logical).

I think the impulse of ascribing intent and meaning to the output is there in almost all questions, it's just a matter of degrees (CSS question vs. meaning of life type question)

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#79
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very wise but doesn’t seem to describe any of my use cases. Maybe some use cases are divination but it is a stretch to call all of them that. Just looking at my recent AI prompts: I was looking for the name of the small fibers which form a bird’s feather. ChatGPT told me they are called “barbs”. Then using straight forward google search i could verify that indeed that is the name of the thing i was lookin…

Sure, some people stepped up to the Oracle and asked how to conquer Persia. Others probably asked where they left their sandals. The quality of the question doesn't change the structure of the act. You presented clear, factual queries. Great. But even there, all the components are still in play: you asked a question into a black box, received a symbolic-seeming response, evaluated its truth post hoc, and interpreted…

You're describing what narrative archetype it is most similar to from ancient history, not what it actually is.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#80
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you asked a question into a black box, received a symbolic-seeming response, evaluated its truth post hoc, and interpreted its relevance So any and all human communication is divination in your book? I think your point is pretty silly. You're falling into a common trap of starting with the premise "I don't like AI", and then working backwards from that to pontification.

> So any and all human communication is divination in your book? Words from an AI are just words. Words in a human brain have more or less (depending on the individual's experiences) "stuff" attached to them: From direct sensory inputs to complex networks of experiences and though. Human thought is mainly not based on words. Language is an add-on. (People without language - never learned, or sometimes temporarily dis…

> People without language - never learned, or sometimes temporarily disabled due to drugs, or permanently due to injury, transient or permanent aphasia - are still consciously thinking people.

There are 40 definitions of the word "consciousness".

For the definitions pertaining to inner world, nobody can tell if anyone besides themselves (regardless of if they speak or move) is conscious, and none of us can prove to anyone else the validity of our own claims to posess it.

When I dream, am I conscious in that moment, or do I create a memory that my consciousness replays when I wake?

> Words from an AI have nothing behind them but word statistics, devoid of any real world, just words based on words.

> […]

> When a fresh out of college person writes this it's based on some shallow real world experience, and lots of hearsay.

My required reading at school included "Dulce Et Decorum Est" by Wilfred Owen.

The horrors of being gassed during trench warfare were alien to us in the peaceful south coast of the UK in 1999/2000.

AI are limited, but what you're describing here is the "book learning" vs. "street smart" dichotomoy rather than their actual weaknesses.

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