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What happens when people don't understand how AI works

theatlantic.com

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Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#51

LLMs are divinatory instruments, our era's oracle, minus the incense and theatrics. If we were honest, we'd admit that "artificial intelligence" is just a modern gloss on a very old instinct: to consult a higher-order text generator and search for wisdom in the obscure. They tick all the boxes: oblique meaning, a semiotic field, the illusion of hidden knowledge, and a ritual interface. The only reason we don't call i…

>When we forget that, we get nonsense like "the chatbot told him he was the messiah," as though language could be blamed for the projection. Words have power, and those that create words - or create machines that create words - have responsibility and liability. It is not enough to say "the reader is responsible for meaning and their actions". When people or planet-burning random matrix multipliers say things and inf…

"Words have no essential meaning" and "speech carries responsibility" aren't contradictory. They're two ends of the same bridge. Meaning is always projected by the reader, but that doesn't exempt the speaker from shaping the terrain of projection.

Acknowledging the interpretive nature of language doesn't absolve us from the consequences of what we say. It just means that communication is always a gamble: we load the dice with intention and hope they land amid the chaos of another mind.

This applies whether the text comes from a person or a model. The key difference is that humans write with a theory of mind. They guess what might land, what might be misread, what might resonate. LLMs don’t guess; they sample. But the meaning still arrives the same way: through the reader, reconstructing significance from dead words.

So no, pointing out that people read meaning into LLM outputs doesn’t let humans off the hook for their own words. It just reminds us that all language is a collaborative illusion, intent on one end, interpretation on the other, and a vast gap where only words exist in between.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#52
post #2

Someone said, "The AI you use today is the worst AI that you will ever use."

Someone also said the current AI is the less biased. Future AI's will be more powerful but probably influenced to push users to spend money or have a political opinion. So they may enshitify...

I will reply with an example of bias in large language models. This comment seems unrelated to farmers in South Africa.

Ultimately these machines work for the people who paid for them.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#53
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't follow with my understanding of transformers at all. I'm not aware of any human labeling in the training. What would labeling even do for an LLM? (Not including multimodal) The whole point of attention is that it uses existing text to determine when tokens are related to other tokens, no?

The transformers are accurately described in the article. The confusion comes in the Reinforcement Learning Human Feedback (RLHF) process after a transformer based system is trained. These are algorithms on top of the basic model that make additional discriminations of the next word (or phrase) to follow based on human feedback. It's really just a layer that makes these models sound "better" to humans. And it's a gre…

Oh, interesting, TIL. Didn't realize there was a second step to training these models.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#54
post #50

LLMs are divinatory instruments, our era's oracle, minus the incense and theatrics. If we were honest, we'd admit that "artificial intelligence" is just a modern gloss on a very old instinct: to consult a higher-order text generator and search for wisdom in the obscure. They tick all the boxes: oblique meaning, a semiotic field, the illusion of hidden knowledge, and a ritual interface. The only reason we don't call i…

This sounds very wise but doesn’t seem to describe any of my use cases. Maybe some use cases are divination but it is a stretch to call all of them that. Just looking at my recent AI prompts: I was looking for the name of the small fibers which form a bird’s feather. ChatGPT told me they are called “barbs”. Then using straight forward google search i could verify that indeed that is the name of the thing i was lookin…

Sure, some people stepped up to the Oracle and asked how to conquer Persia. Others probably asked where they left their sandals. The quality of the question doesn't change the structure of the act.

You presented clear, factual queries. Great. But even there, all the components are still in play: you asked a question into a black box, received a symbolic-seeming response, evaluated its truth post hoc, and interpreted its relevance. That's divination in structural terms. The fact that you're asking about barbs on feathers instead of the fate of empires doesn't negate the ritual, you're just a more practical querent.

Calling it "information retrieval" is fine, but it's worth noticing that this particular interface feels like more than that, like there's an illusion (or a projection) of latent knowledge being revealed. That interpretive dance between human and oracle is the core of divination, no matter how mundane the interaction.

I don't believe this paints with an overly broad brush. It's a real type of interaction and the subtle distinction focuses on the core relationship between human and oracle: seeking and interpreting.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#55
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very wise but doesn’t seem to describe any of my use cases. Maybe some use cases are divination but it is a stretch to call all of them that. Just looking at my recent AI prompts: I was looking for the name of the small fibers which form a bird’s feather. ChatGPT told me they are called “barbs”. Then using straight forward google search i could verify that indeed that is the name of the thing i was lookin…

Sure, some people stepped up to the Oracle and asked how to conquer Persia. Others probably asked where they left their sandals. The quality of the question doesn't change the structure of the act. You presented clear, factual queries. Great. But even there, all the components are still in play: you asked a question into a black box, received a symbolic-seeming response, evaluated its truth post hoc, and interpreted…

> you asked a question into a black box, received a symbolic-seeming response, evaluated its truth post hoc, and interpreted its relevance

So any and all human communication is divination in your book?

I think your point is pretty silly. You're falling into a common trap of starting with the premise "I don't like AI", and then working backwards from that to pontification.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#56

LLMs are divinatory instruments, our era's oracle, minus the incense and theatrics. If we were honest, we'd admit that "artificial intelligence" is just a modern gloss on a very old instinct: to consult a higher-order text generator and search for wisdom in the obscure. They tick all the boxes: oblique meaning, a semiotic field, the illusion of hidden knowledge, and a ritual interface. The only reason we don't call i…

[deleted]

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#57
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very wise but doesn’t seem to describe any of my use cases. Maybe some use cases are divination but it is a stretch to call all of them that. Just looking at my recent AI prompts: I was looking for the name of the small fibers which form a bird’s feather. ChatGPT told me they are called “barbs”. Then using straight forward google search i could verify that indeed that is the name of the thing i was lookin…

Sure, some people stepped up to the Oracle and asked how to conquer Persia. Others probably asked where they left their sandals. The quality of the question doesn't change the structure of the act. You presented clear, factual queries. Great. But even there, all the components are still in play: you asked a question into a black box, received a symbolic-seeming response, evaluated its truth post hoc, and interpreted…

> some people stepped up to the Oracle and asked how to conquer Persia. Others probably asked where they left their sandals.

And if the place would be any good at the second kind of queries you would call it Lost&Found and not the Oracle.

> illusion (or a projection) of latent knowledge being revealed

It is not an illusion. Knowledge is being revealed. The right knowledge for my question.

> That interpretive dance between human and oracle is the core of divination, no matter how mundane the interaction.

Ok, so if I went to a library, used a card index to find a book about bird feather anatomy, then read said book to find that the answer to my question is “barb” would you also call that “divination”?

If i would have paid a software developer to turn my imprecise description of a database table into precise and thight code which can be executed would you also call that “divination”?

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, some people stepped up to the Oracle and asked how to conquer Persia. Others probably asked where they left their sandals. The quality of the question doesn't change the structure of the act. You presented clear, factual queries. Great. But even there, all the components are still in play: you asked a question into a black box, received a symbolic-seeming response, evaluated its truth post hoc, and interpreted…

> you asked a question into a black box, received a symbolic-seeming response, evaluated its truth post hoc, and interpreted its relevance So any and all human communication is divination in your book? I think your point is pretty silly. You're falling into a common trap of starting with the premise "I don't like AI", and then working backwards from that to pontification.

Hacker News deserves a stronger counterargument than “this is silly.”

My original comment is making a structural point, not a mystical one. It’s not saying that using AI feels like praying to a god, it's saying the interaction pattern mirrors forms of ritualized inquiry: question → symbolic output → interpretive response.

You can disagree with the framing, but dismissing it as "I don’t like AI so I’m going to pontificate" sidesteps the actual claim. There's a meaningful difference between saying "this tool gives me answers" and recognizing that the process by which we derive meaning from the output involves human projection and interpretation, just like divination historically did.

This kind of analogy isn't an attack on AI. It’s an attempt to understand the human-AI relationship in cultural terms. That's worth engaging with, even if you think the metaphor fails.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#59
"Witness, too, how seamlessly Mark Zuckerberg went from selling the idea that Facebook would lead to a flourishing of human friendship to, now, selling the notion that Meta will provide you with AI friends to replace the human pals you have lost in our alienated social-media age."

Perhaps "AI" can replace people like Mark Zuckerberg. If BS can be fully automated.

Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works

#60
post #50

LLMs are divinatory instruments, our era's oracle, minus the incense and theatrics. If we were honest, we'd admit that "artificial intelligence" is just a modern gloss on a very old instinct: to consult a higher-order text generator and search for wisdom in the obscure. They tick all the boxes: oblique meaning, a semiotic field, the illusion of hidden knowledge, and a ritual interface. The only reason we don't call i…

This sounds very wise but doesn’t seem to describe any of my use cases. Maybe some use cases are divination but it is a stretch to call all of them that. Just looking at my recent AI prompts: I was looking for the name of the small fibers which form a bird’s feather. ChatGPT told me they are called “barbs”. Then using straight forward google search i could verify that indeed that is the name of the thing i was lookin…

What about the times you didn't get a coherent answer and you gave up and looked elsewhere?
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