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Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

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Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#71

Post by Zigurd »

panick21_ wrote: post #65
Zigurd wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Superior outputs" seems to have stagnated at Elon companies: From Falcon 9 to Starship, and from Model Y to Cybertruck, for example.

Calling building the biggest rocket in the world and the largest sat company in the world, that both launches, manufactures and operates the most sats in the world, while being the only company that can deliver humans reliably into space and also has a private space flight business. Claiming that ist 'stagnet' is an absolutely absurd claim. Oh and that was the Falcon Heavy. Starship is even bigger and more powerful a…

Tesla was dominant in EVs until Cybertruck. Now they no longer lead sales numbers in China or Europe or Mexico or Japan or Korea. Elon himself said that Starlink would fail without Starship. Or is believing what he says situational?

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#72

Post by panick21_ »

Zigurd wrote: post #71
panick21_ wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling building the biggest rocket in the world and the largest sat company in the world, that both launches, manufactures and operates the most sats in the world, while being the only company that can deliver humans reliably into space and also has a private space flight business. Claiming that ist 'stagnet' is an absolutely absurd claim. Oh and that was the Falcon Heavy. Starship is even bigger and more powerful a…

Tesla was dominant in EVs until Cybertruck. Now they no longer lead sales numbers in China or Europe or Mexico or Japan or Korea. Elon himself said that Starlink would fail without Starship. Or is believing what he says situational?

Tesla drop is not only related to Cybertruck. That didn't help, but they have other issues. But so do many other car companies.

> Elon himself said that Starlink would fail without Starship. Or is believing what he says situational?

Elon is well known to make dramatic statements to motivate people. He said that many years ago and the company is totally fine, Starlink is doing well. SpaceX still has the cheapest launch by an order of magnitude.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#73

Post by mindslight »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #62
mindslight wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your whole argument rests on excluding the middle, which could have been tepid support instead of appearing on stage to throw Nazi salutes, giving out money to voters signing fake Orwellian pledges about "supporting" the Constitution, and threatening to primary non-maggot congressional candidates. You've essentially set up a Roko's Basilisk, based around one small hateful man rather than superintelligence.

And I think I addressed the salutes (and implicitly his other actions) as being completely irrational and inexplicable. Musk does that sort of thing a lot. If you're under the impression I think any of this is a good thing, that would be grossly incorrect.

I get that you're not in favor of the destructionists, like anyone not still drinking the increasingly-adulterated Kool-aid. I just think your argument veers into the territory of absolving Musk, and for no reason. It might work for Bezos or other business "leaders" that fell in line to kiss the ring but have otherwise have stayed mum, but not Musk.

Musk's all-in fervent support wasn't necessary. He doesn't get a triple pass from having to support the fascist candidate to avoid being put up against the wall, and then again for his natural tendency to embrace things and go hardcore, and then again for working to destroy/loot our institutions because it's just lucrative business. This isn't some British comedy sketch where someone is trapped by social pressure in an increasingly escalating role - at a certain point he is just a neonazi (or "sparkling autocratic authoritarian" for the "akshually" simps).

If it turns out that Musk was showing so much support as a cover for acting behind the scenes to oust Trump, I will happily change my opinion. But given Musk's longer trend of spiraling into debilitating social media addition, I'm not holding out hope.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#74

Post by pstuart »

inemesitaffia wrote: post #41
pstuart wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then why does spacex have superior outputs? * The dictate of fail fast and iterate quickly, along with simplification of mechanisms and ample compute power. * Not being mired in the bureaucracy of committees and government bodies to answer to Yes, being enabled by a billionaire with a dream made a huge difference. But that's not a guarantee, as there's been 3 such billionaires and only one SpaceX.

SpaceX was founded with him as a millionaire tho

True, bad wording on my part. But I stand by my point that the magic came from rapid iteration rather than an ossified and bureaucratic management team that was risk-averse.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#75

Post by pstuart »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #51
pstuart wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then why does spacex have superior outputs? * The dictate of fail fast and iterate quickly, along with simplification of mechanisms and ample compute power. * Not being mired in the bureaucracy of committees and government bodies to answer to Yes, being enabled by a billionaire with a dream made a huge difference. But that's not a guarantee, as there's been 3 such billionaires and only one SpaceX.

Or... incredibly long work hours and all of that just falls into place? Have you ever read any books about spaceX? His "surges" are what made spacex great.

> incredibly long work hours

Absolutely makes a difference. My point is that hard work alone was not enough to make it happen -- "fail fast" was key.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#76

Post by CamperBob2 »

mindslight wrote: post #73
CamperBob2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I think I addressed the salutes (and implicitly his other actions) as being completely irrational and inexplicable. Musk does that sort of thing a lot. If you're under the impression I think any of this is a good thing, that would be grossly incorrect.

I get that you're not in favor of the destructionists, like anyone not still drinking the increasingly-adulterated Kool-aid. I just think your argument veers into the territory of absolving Musk, and for no reason. It might work for Bezos or other business "leaders" that fell in line to kiss the ring but have otherwise have stayed mum, but not Musk. Musk's all-in fervent support wasn't necessary. He doesn't get a tri…

Yeah, I don't disagree. No idea what Musk's deal is, but he's pretty messed up. He evidently lacks the slightest regard for how his words and actions play out in history.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#77

Post by panick21_ »

consumer451 wrote: post #39
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #22

One web needs ground based gateways, which isn't really an option in warzones. These gateways will be immediately targeted. The only option is to used space based lasers for relay. Of which, spaceX is the only entity on the planet with this technology. Love or hate Elon, he's been able to turn himself into a very powerful figure on the world stage through technology alone. If you think him having complete control ove…

> spaceX is the only entity on the planet with this technology. Rocket Lab is in talks to purchase Mynaric, a German company which specializes in laser links. https://spacenews.com/rocket-lab-to-expand-into-laser-commun...

Lots of companies have laser links and lots of people have demonstrated it. That's not new.

Having a large OPERATIONAL network is what is unique and will be for years to come.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#78

Post by kennykartman »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #27
jltsiren wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood the fetishization of long working hours. If there is a job where you can meaningfully work 80+ hours a week, the same (and often better) results can be achieved with more employees working fewer hours. If the work can't be split like that, it's probably demanding enough that you can't sustain more than 20-30 productive hours a week in the long term. It's possible to mix reasonable hours of deman…

then why does spacex have superior outputs?

I'm not personally into aerospace, but a couple of my friends are in high profile, international (multi-agency) missions and from their feedback it is my understanding that SpaceX does not have "superior outputs". What SpaceX has is 1. tons of funding 2. less regulation. Does this mean more throughput? Yes. Is the output better? No. Shifting the costs onto the environment and private pockets does not imply that the work is higher quality or that their policies are better.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#79

Post by kranke155 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #63
matthewdgreen wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeff Bezos seems to have made a few minor genuflections in Trump's direction and is otherwise unaffected (except for the wreckage Trump's tariffs are likely inflicting on Amazon.) No, Musk's decision was a choice. And now he's stuck with that choice. There is almost certainly no way that things "just go back to normal" with a future Democratic administration.

Torpedoing the Washington Post wasn't what I'd call a "minor genuflection," but whatever.

  for Jeff Bezos - it is.
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