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Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

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Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#21

Post by debugnik »

bslanej wrote: post #5
UncleEntity wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...it’s extremely unlikely that Europe will be successful at this. The future is US-China dominated. I think the events of the last few weeks have been a wake-up call to many people around the globe who now see the value of not having their entire economy (or telecommunications &etc) be vulnerable to the whims of one person, be that the richest person in the world or a president nobody in Europe voted for. I suspec…

> or a president nobody in Europe voted for. Are you talking about the European Commission, which we didn’t vote for?

Your head of government appointed a member of that commission, though. For better or worse, it's similar to that same head of government being appointed by the people you actually voted for in a parliamentary system (but two steps removed).

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#22

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

One web needs ground based gateways, which isn't really an option in warzones. These gateways will be immediately targeted. The only option is to used space based lasers for relay. Of which, spaceX is the only entity on the planet with this technology.

Love or hate Elon, he's been able to turn himself into a very powerful figure on the world stage through technology alone. If you think him having complete control over Starlink is a national security risk, he's just getting started.

Unfortunately with European employement laws, I don't see them being able to compete. If you tried, you’d face fines, lawsuits, and maybe even criminal penalties for making your employees work the 80+ hour weeks that Elon requires from all of his companies.

Europe craves work life balance, Elon craves technological power. He's convinced some smart people their life is the company. Europe just doesn't have that culture, and it's mandated by law that you can't have that culture.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#23

Post by uncomplexity_ »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #14
uncomplexity_ wrote: post #10

[flagged]

Usual American propaganda about Europe. The truth is the normative push has been working very well. The EU is a very successful market. The poorer parts are getting richer far faster as soon as they join and the whole union is peaceful, something which was thought impossible sixty years ago. The only people who would like the EU to disband are its ennemies and I include the US amongst them.

my point exactly.

europe is way too focused on empowering their losers instead of their winners.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#24

Post by Onavo »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #22

One web needs ground based gateways, which isn't really an option in warzones. These gateways will be immediately targeted. The only option is to used space based lasers for relay. Of which, spaceX is the only entity on the planet with this technology. Love or hate Elon, he's been able to turn himself into a very powerful figure on the world stage through technology alone. If you think him having complete control ove…

> Europe craves work life balance, Elon craves technological power. He's convinced some smart people their life is the company. Europe just doesn't have that culture, and it's mandated by law that you can't have that culture.

The problem is cultural yes but they have plenty of low cost labor willing to work overtime and put in long hours. It's called Eastern Europe. The bigger problem is an overly bureaucratic Brussels and a lack of imagination among their leadership. Britain can probably do well in this area, maybe the French too if they get their head out of their asses. The day they stop sending their top ML companies like Huggingface and Mistral to the US for funding is the day when the Fifth Republic finally spreads realizes their potential.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#25

Post by angra_mainyu »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #20
angra_mainyu wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly would not be surprised if we ended up returning to a more fragmented EU, it's becoming quite a mess. Personally, I absolutely love if we could have something looser, like a "Common European Area": freedom to travel, freedom to study, freedom to live, freedom to work. That's it. No EC/EP or anything like that.

This was something that came up during Brexit of course but it seems difficult when you start getting into the details. The idea is that (completely reasonably) if you have a “single market” as you describe, you need harmonised regulation so everybody is on a level playing field; once you have done that then you need some form of democratic governance. Everyone basically ends up designing the EU when they do this.

>The idea is that (completely reasonably) if you have a “single market” as you describe

I didn't really describe this though. Had I mentioned currencies or trade agreements you might have more of a point.

It's more like automatic work permits for Europeans within Europe, unlimited stays, ease of access to renting + purchasing housing.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#26

Post by jltsiren »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #22

One web needs ground based gateways, which isn't really an option in warzones. These gateways will be immediately targeted. The only option is to used space based lasers for relay. Of which, spaceX is the only entity on the planet with this technology. Love or hate Elon, he's been able to turn himself into a very powerful figure on the world stage through technology alone. If you think him having complete control ove…

I've never understood the fetishization of long working hours. If there is a job where you can meaningfully work 80+ hours a week, the same (and often better) results can be achieved with more employees working fewer hours. If the work can't be split like that, it's probably demanding enough that you can't sustain more than 20-30 productive hours a week in the long term.

It's possible to mix reasonable hours of demanding work with additional hours of meetings, routine work, and procrastination. Maybe it's cheaper for the employer than managing the work better and hiring additional people for the routine parts. Maybe there are some social and organizational benefits to the employer when the employees have no life outside work. But long hours like that don't lead to superior outputs.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#27

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

jltsiren wrote: post #26
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #22

One web needs ground based gateways, which isn't really an option in warzones. These gateways will be immediately targeted. The only option is to used space based lasers for relay. Of which, spaceX is the only entity on the planet with this technology. Love or hate Elon, he's been able to turn himself into a very powerful figure on the world stage through technology alone. If you think him having complete control ove…

I've never understood the fetishization of long working hours. If there is a job where you can meaningfully work 80+ hours a week, the same (and often better) results can be achieved with more employees working fewer hours. If the work can't be split like that, it's probably demanding enough that you can't sustain more than 20-30 productive hours a week in the long term. It's possible to mix reasonable hours of deman…

then why does spacex have superior outputs?

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#28

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

Onavo wrote: post #24
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #22

One web needs ground based gateways, which isn't really an option in warzones. These gateways will be immediately targeted. The only option is to used space based lasers for relay. Of which, spaceX is the only entity on the planet with this technology. Love or hate Elon, he's been able to turn himself into a very powerful figure on the world stage through technology alone. If you think him having complete control ove…

> Europe craves work life balance, Elon craves technological power. He's convinced some smart people their life is the company. Europe just doesn't have that culture, and it's mandated by law that you can't have that culture. The problem is cultural yes but they have plenty of low cost labor willing to work overtime and put in long hours. It's called Eastern Europe. The bigger problem is an overly bureaucratic Brusse…

European oligarchs have different priorities. They invest in land, art and gold, that's how you preserve capital over generations. That's why top european companies end up taking money from venture capital in the US.

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#29

Post by [deleted] »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #22

One web needs ground based gateways, which isn't really an option in warzones. These gateways will be immediately targeted. The only option is to used space based lasers for relay. Of which, spaceX is the only entity on the planet with this technology. Love or hate Elon, he's been able to turn himself into a very powerful figure on the world stage through technology alone. If you think him having complete control ove…

[deleted]

Re: Europe is trying to leave Starlink behind

#30

Post by izacus »

Spivak wrote: post #18
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usual American propaganda about Europe. The truth is the normative push has been working very well. The EU is a very successful market. The poorer parts are getting richer far faster as soon as they join and the whole union is peaceful, something which was thought impossible sixty years ago. The only people who would like the EU to disband are its ennemies and I include the US amongst them.

It's so funny when anyone in the US makes fun of the EU because we're literally the EU with an even stronger overbearing central government, more infighting, and you're not allowed to leave.

This exactly, one of the more bizarre brain worms around tech community is people that fetishize US and want EU to be more like that... and then complain about centralisation and standardization that makes US so strong.
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