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Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

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Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#71

Post by mlboss »

rvba wrote: post #57
tempestn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've eventually managed to learn after failing at it many, many times is that in the vast majority of cases an email can only say one thing; if you try to ask multiple questions, or give multiple pieces of information, best case people will actually read one of them. Worst case it'll overwhelm and they'll ignore the whole thing. It's obviously different if you know the recipient and that they're able to han…

All those complicated recruitment processes and companies cannot hire peoppe who know how to read...

Its information overload. Everybody is super busy with 10,000 things to care of. My approach to repeat again and again. No hard feelings.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#72

Post by tabony »

kortilla wrote: post #56
ryandrake wrote: post #33

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

This sounds a bit like a fantasy or the rules you’re breaking are completely irrelevant. “I’m going to do X in 5 days if you don’t respond” gives you absolutely no recourse if you do something that can result in reprimand. About the only place where this works is violating some internal design decisions that are irrelevant to the business.

Have been doing all my life and it has never backfired.

It’s not about breaking rules. It’s that I already know what you want.

If I buy you ice cream without asking you for the flavor, it’s because I already know what you want because I pay attention to you.

And it doesn’t matter when I get it wrong because you appreciated the 500 other times I cared about you.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#73

Post by capkutay »

JackFr wrote: post #37

This is a recipe for disaster the first time you break something. Getting a yes or a no indicates that your boss is aware of it. When you’re in the hot seat, and someone asks “Who approved this?”, the truthful answer is that no one approved it.

Owning things is breaking things (and fixing it).

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#74

Post by _kb »

If you extrapolate this to larger / more bureaucratic organisations this is a change advisory board. You advise that change X will happen to system Y at time Z along with details of prep work, risks, and conditions for back-out. This gives a window for questions or concerns to be raised. In lieu of a nope, it then proceeds.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#75

Post by post-it »

afarviral wrote: post #36
locusofself wrote: post #24

I like this approach to communication, except the the "deadline" part. I'd prefer my reports just let me know if they are working on something which I may want to veto (because I may have more context as to why it's a waste of time or not a priority). Giving a "deadline" to your manager is strange, and almost like a weird, annoying threat. I also would like to think I would give people on my team enough autonomy to m…

I really like the idea of seeking a no (e.g. let me know if I shouldn't go ahead) but as soon as I add something like, "I will do this on this date, unless I hear otherwise", is a little aggressive feeling. It might be easy enough to simply mention the time the work will take place, but leave it unspoken that they could decide it's best to not proceed, "I should get it done around this time". Then again, it's been a…

It's just a matter of phrasing. "Hi, I wanted to give you a heads up that XYZ needs doing, and I'll be doing it on Wednesday. Let me know if that doesn't work."

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#76

Post by lelanthran »

Buttons840 wrote: post #54
ryandrake wrote: post #33

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

How do you actually word this? "We plan to defragment the thingamajig on March 1st. We're reaching out to those who might have an interest in case this might cause problems. Please let us know if you have concerns about the defragment. If we don't hear from you by March 1st, the thingamajig will be defragged." Something like this?

That's a bit long.

"We're planning on defragging the thingamajig on March 1st unless objections are raised. Please send objections to manager@my.division.com"

Honestly, I've been doing this for decades with legal stuff: "Please confirm that my next pickup date for $CHILD is March 1st." often resulted in the other party just remaining silent and, when complaints against her not allowing the child out were made, she responded with "I never objected to that specific visit".

Using "Unless objections are received, I will fetch $CHILD on March 1st" stopped her from using that excuse.

It's a great way to deal with a difficult party who just wants to have as much creative misunderstandings as possible.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#78

Post by lelanthran »

kortilla wrote: post #56
ryandrake wrote: post #33

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

This sounds a bit like a fantasy or the rules you’re breaking are completely irrelevant. “I’m going to do X in 5 days if you don’t respond” gives you absolutely no recourse if you do something that can result in reprimand. About the only place where this works is violating some internal design decisions that are irrelevant to the business.

> “I’m going to do X in 5 days if you don’t respond” gives you absolutely no recourse if you do something that can result in reprimand.

Surely you wouldn't use this for any action that could result in a reprimand?

"Unless we receive objections, we're dropping the domain $X on March 1st and switching to the domain $Y instead" is not something you'd do.

OTOH, "Unless we receive objections from you, we're proceeding with (the current mocked-up UI|the last discussed tech-stack|deployment date|refactor|)" is not going to result in a reprimand.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#79

Post by wvenable »

locusofself wrote: post #24

I like this approach to communication, except the the "deadline" part. I'd prefer my reports just let me know if they are working on something which I may want to veto (because I may have more context as to why it's a waste of time or not a priority). Giving a "deadline" to your manager is strange, and almost like a weird, annoying threat. I also would like to think I would give people on my team enough autonomy to m…

I think the article does a disservice calling it a deadline. I had the same concerns at that point until I read the example and it clicked. It's really just the date you will do the thing, not really a deadline.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#80

Post by seanwilson »

Part of this "I'm going to do this unless you let me know otherwise" trick is not phrasing it like a question to reduce communication overhead. That way the receiver doesn't have to write a reply and you don't get another email to read (and for anyone CCed).

Saying that, I like emoji reaction features like on GitHub and Google Docs where you can just give a thumbs up to acknowledge you read and agreed to something. Seems really unpopular with some on HN for some reason, but emoji reactions are a useful lightweight way to communicate that you're on the same page, rather than making someone go through the motions of sending a "Okay, makes sense!" comment for every little thing. A bit like an upvote.

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