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Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

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Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#31

Post by caseyy »

zulban wrote: post #27
OutOfHere wrote: post #3

Why bother. If the company doesn't want to respond in the affirmative to a valuable idea that has been communicated clearly, let it torpedo itself and dig its grave. Whatever the answer, the outcome will be righteous. In the bigger scheme of things, it is better to evolve companies that answer optimally. There is no need to ever bend over backwards to save a company that is not your own.

Your career isn't going to go very far if you have no strategies to overcome roadblocks and deadweight employees in a large org. "Let it torpedo itself" and then what? Find a new job any time you encounter stupid obstacles? That's a new job every 4 months.

This is important wisdom.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#32

Post by jrexilius »

This is a great way to frame it with the caveat that you've done a fair bit of homework to support your assertion. And the other thing I would add is context-aware time padding. The "deadline" should be adjusted to respect the bosses schedule AND the potential impact. i.e. if it could hit production, give them more time. If it can't easily be rolled back, give them more time, etc.

But in general, if you are an adult, competent at your job, taking initiative, and have spent a bit of time thinking through the second and possibly third order effects, this is great.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#33

Post by ryandrake »

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days, I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not asking for approval and then helplessly waiting and pinging. I’m putting them on notice. XYZ is going to happen unless you get off your butt and stop me.

Occasionally someone will come back weeks later, angry that I did XYZ without telling them, and I always have a paper trail showing that they were the ones who dropped the ball.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#35

Post by OutOfHere »

zulban wrote: post #27
OutOfHere wrote: post #3

Why bother. If the company doesn't want to respond in the affirmative to a valuable idea that has been communicated clearly, let it torpedo itself and dig its grave. Whatever the answer, the outcome will be righteous. In the bigger scheme of things, it is better to evolve companies that answer optimally. There is no need to ever bend over backwards to save a company that is not your own.

Your career isn't going to go very far if you have no strategies to overcome roadblocks and deadweight employees in a large org. "Let it torpedo itself" and then what? Find a new job any time you encounter stupid obstacles? That's a new job every 4 months.

It usually takes 2-3 years of bad actions for a team to torpedo itself, so no, 4 months doesn't relate.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#36

Post by afarviral »

locusofself wrote: post #24

I like this approach to communication, except the the "deadline" part. I'd prefer my reports just let me know if they are working on something which I may want to veto (because I may have more context as to why it's a waste of time or not a priority). Giving a "deadline" to your manager is strange, and almost like a weird, annoying threat. I also would like to think I would give people on my team enough autonomy to m…

I really like the idea of seeking a no (e.g. let me know if I shouldn't go ahead) but as soon as I add something like, "I will do this on this date, unless I hear otherwise", is a little aggressive feeling. It might be easy enough to simply mention the time the work will take place, but leave it unspoken that they could decide it's best to not proceed, "I should get it done around this time". Then again, it's been a goal of mine forever to be assertive. Cowing only takes you so far.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#37

Post by JackFr »

This is a recipe for disaster the first time you break something. Getting a yes or a no indicates that your boss is aware of it.

When you’re in the hot seat, and someone asks “Who approved this?”, the truthful answer is that no one approved it.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#38

Post by finnigja »

Another take on this I like is "radiating intent". Broadcast what you want to do, when you plan to do it, and give stakeholders space to explicitly object, rather than explicitly chasing consensus / alignment / approval. Works in some scenarios, and generally requires baseline trust to have been earned.

https://medium.com/@ElizAyer/dont-ask-forgiveness-radiate-in...

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#39

Post by ulfw »

glitchc wrote: post #23

I think this kind of approach, and I've used it in the past, only works in American companies or bosses who are familiar with the American way of business. It can backfire badly if the boss doesn't like it. During a performance review, the boss inevitably labels you as insubordinate and all of the evidence needed was handed to them on a platter. Sometimes asking for permission really is the best way, even in the US.…

This will not work in non-American companies where a boss might actually have a life and not work weekends, or heaven forbids have days/week(s) off.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#40

Post by sieabahlpark »

ryandrake wrote: post #33

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

Works great until you break the law by accident if you're in a regulated industry. Sometimes it isn't as easy to do that.
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