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I conditioned myself to fail

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Re: I conditioned myself to fail

#71

Post by dns_snek »

8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #65
richarme wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. I think adults with ADHD are well aware that they are not "normal" with respect to many of the symptoms, even if they don't know it's due to ADHD. At least that's my personal experience. Few examples off the top of my head: - being unable to pay bills/fines on time even with plenty of money in the bank. - being physically unable to keep sitting in a chair after a while in meetings. It's easy to see that mos…

People need systems. Oh, I forgot to pay that bill on time. Oh I forgot again. And again. And again. Maybe I have ADHD? Whoops, forgot to pay the bill. Maybe they do have ADHD, maybe they don't. Maybe they should get diagnosed so they can learn more about it and find strategies for dealing with it instead of blaming it. But regardless, just find something that works for you and stop making excuses. I used to forget m…

> Maybe they do have ADHD, maybe they don't. Maybe they should get diagnosed so they can learn more about it and find strategies for dealing with it instead of blaming it.

Cool, I wish it was that simple but I don't think you realize how screwed up the system is. The waiting lists are YEARS long in many places, and many people with ADHD (I would dare to speculate the majority) get misdiagnosed with just anxiety and depression at some point, for women it's even harder and they're often misdiagnosed with bipolar.

The fight to even get your struggles appropriately recognized is long and exhausting, often requiring energy that people with ADHD just don't have.

> But regardless, just find something that works for you and stop making excuses.

This sort of advice is perhaps the most common form of gaslighting that individuals with ADHD experience from childhood up to present day and I don't think you understand how damaging it is.

People with ADHD should still make an effort, but these aren't just "excuses" and the fact is that the majority will never be able to consistently perform at the same level as non-ADHD people of similar intelligence. If I can't find something that works, and people who should know better say I'm "healthy", then this means I'm suffering from a character flaw like laziness.

This is the highway to guilt, self-loathing and internalized shame, which eventually leads to suicidal ideation (1 in 4 people with ADHD) and approximately half of those will attempt to take their own life at some point.

Obviously certain systems can and do work for certain people, but they're not a solution and chances are that the people you're lecturing have already tried various systems and still struggle.

How are you accommodating people who you think are using ADHD as an excuse?

> put it in your calendar. Forget to check your calendar? Set an alarm that you have to dismiss.

Autopay is a valid tactic, but other suggestions just don't work consistently. Even if there's an alarm that has to be dismissed, there's a chance that you'll dismiss the alarm, go to pay the bill and then get sidetracked by a random chore and completely forget about it again.

That's why ADHD is a disorder and a disability, not just a personality quirk. I hope that you mean well, but you're spreading very unhelpful and potentially damaging commentary on the topic.

Re: I conditioned myself to fail

#72

Post by humility »

going through similar emotions while building, I wonder if the author’s attitude is aligned to the ‘fail rapidly’ adage. I go through the same, although I gave my landing pages a couple of weeks at least to garner feedback (no success so far). But whether it should be 2 weeks to give up on the project or 2 days is anybody’s guess imo.

Re: I conditioned myself to fail

#73

Post by inSenCite »

tithe wrote: post #43
inSenCite wrote: post #13

Well, zero criticism IS a form of criticism so I don't blame the author for not being motivated after the fact. I'd even say its the worst kind of criticism because it leaves you with nothing to build next. But I think they are highlighting an important thing here that most of us struggle with...building is fun, progress is discrete and clear, the feedback loop is very tight. Selling and marketing to people sucks, it…

Agreed, building something is just the first step. One of the marketing struggles I've had is just getting people to care. I did have a bit of an "If you build it, they will come" attitude because I had confidence in the quality of the work...but even that seems to be irrelevant if you can't get people interested. As an introvert by nature (extrovert by necessity), I wonder what I'm missing that others seems to grasp…

I think it just boils down to that most of the time we are just plain wrong about what people want badly enough to change what they are doing already. Our other fallacy is that quality of work matters - like yes, kind of, but it matters far less than finding and fixing an "important" problem.

How many times have you encountered a piece of software that is utter garbage from a ui/ux/engg. perspective but gets used ALL THE TIME? plenty of b2b examples of this including back ends of banks. They are awful, but they work. The business solves a very real customer problem and the tech is just a supporting (although still critical) act. As long as the problem gets solved, the tech. does not really matter. There is obviously more nuance to this vis a vis software maintenance etc. but when starting up, the tech should matter to you less than finding a valid problem.

Re: I conditioned myself to fail

#75

Post by 8n4vidtmkvmk »

dns_snek wrote: post #71
8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need systems. Oh, I forgot to pay that bill on time. Oh I forgot again. And again. And again. Maybe I have ADHD? Whoops, forgot to pay the bill. Maybe they do have ADHD, maybe they don't. Maybe they should get diagnosed so they can learn more about it and find strategies for dealing with it instead of blaming it. But regardless, just find something that works for you and stop making excuses. I used to forget m…

> Maybe they do have ADHD, maybe they don't. Maybe they should get diagnosed so they can learn more about it and find strategies for dealing with it instead of blaming it. Cool, I wish it was that simple but I don't think you realize how screwed up the system is. The waiting lists are YEARS long in many places, and many people with ADHD (I would dare to speculate the majority) get misdiagnosed with just anxiety and d…

Sorry, I probably shouldn't have said it like that but I do want to clarify one thing. When I said "excuses" I meant for themselves not for other people. As in folks with ADHD do deserve some affordances or understanding from others (myself included), but I think it's more healthy to look for solutions than to consistently blame all your problems on whatever you have going on in life (ADHD or otherwise) and avoid dealing with the situation head on. Don't beat yourself up about either, of course, but try to find some creative solutions if possible.

> How are you accommodating people who you think are using ADHD as an excuse?

There are two people in my life with ADHD. I think so anyway. My good friend was diagnosed, my wife hasn't been but we think she is. Neither really use it as an excuse. My friend talks about it occasionally, it affects some aspects of his life, but it's just never been a problem for our friendship. If we let him, he will keep talking into the wee hours of the night even when it's time for him to go. We just drop more and more obvious hints that it's time to go home until he gets the idea or his wife drags him out. My wife OTOH forgets all her belongings when we leave the house, and when she gets to talking I can't say a word to her, just in one ear and out the other, she has to finish her story. I just go about my day and do what I need to do while she keeps talking. I'll cook, put the food right in her hands, whatever needs to happen because she won't be able to fulfill simple tasks when she gets going. And when I leave the house I just ask her if she has this, this, this, this and this. She'll still forget something but it is what it is. So that's how I "accommodate" them. I recognize when they're hyper-fixated on something and I just work with it. I don't blame them and I don't think it's a personal failure on their part.

My friend, by the way, works with me at FAANG. I say this to give people hope. I certainly don't want anyone to feel shame or have thoughts of suicide. Y'all can do great things and live great lives.

Re: I conditioned myself to fail

#77

Post by csallen »

richarme wrote: post #39
balfirevic wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think a lot of people just don't have a good baseline for what's normal. True, but that works both ways. "Surely everyone else gets distracted this much".

Disagree. I think adults with ADHD are well aware that they are not "normal" with respect to many of the symptoms, even if they don't know it's due to ADHD. At least that's my personal experience. Few examples off the top of my head: - being unable to pay bills/fines on time even with plenty of money in the bank. - being physically unable to keep sitting in a chair after a while in meetings. It's easy to see that mos…

I have plenty of money in the bank. I work for myself and set my own schedule. Yet my bills, fines, and letters pile up and accrue late fees constantly. I've filed my taxes late like 7 out of the last 10 years.

Maybe I'm naive, but the thought has never occurred to me, "Maybe it's because I have ADHD."

Re: I conditioned myself to fail

#78

Post by shermantanktop »

robocat wrote: post #69
8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried telling them straight up that their behaviour is unacceptable? That they need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and complaining or no one will want to be around them? I found out this lesson the hard way. I was a miserable kid. I don't know how it figured it out, but feeling sorry for yourself accomplishes nothing. Maybe life is shit. Maybe you're over-exaggerating. Doesn't matter, you're not going…

> Have you tried telling them straight up that their behaviour is unacceptable? Yea, but it isn't effective on anybody that is fooling themselves or that isn't interested in listening to me. I lack the skill of influence. My usual outcome in this situation is that I drop anyone that is unwilling to listen because it isn't healthy for me. I do give people the benefit of the doubt. Both parties need to respect each oth…

It's not clear whether you think the problem is them or is you.

They own their problems, and the best you can do is tell them what you think, and maybe encourage them if you see some positive sign. You can also act as a positive role model, but people in that mindset are unable to draw lessons from others.

But if you hang around people who you think are miserable and self-defeating, and you don't want to move on, but you don't like it, maybe the problem is you.

Re: I conditioned myself to fail

#79

Post by user68858788 »

magnetowasright wrote: post #70
user68858788 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t been to a psychiatrist in five years. It wouldn’t hurt to go back and see what they say. Thanks for giving me some hope!

Please do! It took my mate like a year and a half with an amazing psychiatrist to settle on a regimen. I'd recommend having a look through some ADHD groups; they're full of knowledge and tips and tricks that can help you self advocate. A psychiatrist should have explained to you upon prescribing these meds that the first few days may feel like rocket fuel and that thereafter they may feel great (or can make it worse)…

I appreciate a good rant, thank you! You’ve moved me and I’ll definitely be scheduling something soon. I was unprepared to self advocate the first time I worked with a psychiatrist, but now I have a bit more experience and some clear goals, thanks to you.

Thanks again for taking the time to help out a stranger!

Re: I conditioned myself to fail

#80

Post by magnetowasright »

user68858788 wrote: post #79
magnetowasright wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do! It took my mate like a year and a half with an amazing psychiatrist to settle on a regimen. I'd recommend having a look through some ADHD groups; they're full of knowledge and tips and tricks that can help you self advocate. A psychiatrist should have explained to you upon prescribing these meds that the first few days may feel like rocket fuel and that thereafter they may feel great (or can make it worse)…

I appreciate a good rant, thank you! You’ve moved me and I’ll definitely be scheduling something soon. I was unprepared to self advocate the first time I worked with a psychiatrist, but now I have a bit more experience and some clear goals, thanks to you. Thanks again for taking the time to help out a stranger!

I really hope it all works out for you! I'm sure it will; you've got this! :)
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