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Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

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Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#71

Post by 9283409232 »

BowBun wrote: post #47
fzeroracer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure what's more topical is Trump telling all ATC controllers to leave, immediately. Rather than a shitty test that was used for a few years and then phased out.

This is disengenious. They received the same deferred resignation email that every other federal employee got. They weren't told to 'leave immediately' nor was anyone else, they were offered an option to leave or stay on for 9 months, with pay. I'm getting frustrated at 'my people' seemingly just making things up on this topic. Edit: Also linking another comment where ATC was literally told they're not in the offer..…

They didn't make anything up. What they said is 100% accurate and lines up with what you said, you just have additional context they didn't have. Your fight should be with the reporting outlets because that is how they are reporting it.

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#72

Post by wongarsu »

leeoniya wrote: post #44
cogman10 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this is something that is solved by tech. It sounds like they simply don't have enough staff, whether that a budget problem or hiring problem IDK. The article mentions they have a 50% reduction in new hires which either says it's hard to be competent, the job is too demanding, or both. They had 1 tower with 1 operator and no redundancy at a fairly busy airport, which is definitely concerning.

> I'm not sure this is something that is solved by tech in this case it seems like it could definitely have been solved by tech. both aircraft were traveling at predictable paths and opertating nominally.

In the leaked ATC recording, the display is showing a collision alert before the impact. It just doesn't have any capability to do anything about them, it has to rely on the air traffic controller to resolve the issue.

You could argue that helicopters, being very nimble craft, should have ADS-B receivers and provide display and sound their own collision warnings to their pilots. That's perfectly possible, I just don't think it's mandated

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#73

Post by giantg2 »

duxup wrote: post #66
blantonl wrote: post #30

If there is one thing I've learned in the past few days, acutely so, is that the vast majority of people do not understand the sheer complexity of what it takes to have an aviation industry.

I think “sense of urgency”, “trouble shooting”, “understanding what is influencing other people’s actions” and even the ability to run a sort of “run a mental simulation and anticipate second order effects” are uncommon skills. I worked with a good technical support team that worked on some high end equipment, and regardless of education the ability to troubleshoot could be found regardless and … in spite of educatio…

'“run a mental simulation and anticipate second order effects” are uncommon skill.'

There are literally people who are innately unable to do this (run mental simulations). I wonder what the percentage is though.

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#74

Post by rayiner »

dpkirchner wrote: post #31
jfengel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They won't cut traffic for the same reason they are understaffed: money. Raise pay until you have enough staff. It's not always that simple, but sometimes it is. Not everyone could do it, but a lot of people could. You just have to pay them to attract them from more lucrative jobs (which includes training them to do it). Instead they'll pay as little as they can, and occasionally pay to replace an aircraft.

Pay isn't enough, you also have to give the plausible impression that their job will still exist in a few years, and they won't be laid off on the whim of a shadow president.

[flagged]

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#75

Post by ModernMech »

tuatoru wrote: post #37
n1b0m wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was dropped in 2018

The fact that it was done in the first place is widely known and would discourage many from even considering a career in ATC. The negative effects are still in play. The same for military recruitment.

Have you asked any? I mean has anyone literally told you this?

Because people here in the field are saying what discourages others from applying is low pay and high stress. Yet you seem to think it’s an outdated hiring practice, so who told you that?

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#76

Post by staplers »

9283409232 wrote: post #57
blantonl wrote: post #30

If there is one thing I've learned in the past few days, acutely so, is that the vast majority of people do not understand the sheer complexity of what it takes to have an aviation industry.

People don't understand the complexity of anything and why it cost so much, including the moron trying to make cuts.

A society accustomed to "magic pills" tends to think this way.

Feels like a marketing/PR issue where every complexity or downside is hidden.

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#77

Post by bryant »

RandomBacon wrote: post #50
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They won't cut traffic for the same reason they are understaffed: money. Raise pay until you have enough staff. It's really not that simple. It's a 3-year training process. There's really nothing that's going to get you adequately staffed in the short term. Sure, that could solve the problem medium term.

ATC here (opinions are my own, not of the FAA, etc) Pay is a huge part of it, so it really is that simple. Qualified people are choosing not to even apply anymore because the pay is no longer competitive with other high-paying jobs that don't destroy you mentally and physically, or have a complicated hiring process like ATC does.

Frankly the pay should be comparable to commercial pilots in the current market. Or more.

Funding sadly is probably better handled as a tax on the people rather than the industry simply because ATCs protect more than just commercial crew and passengers, and more than just their home country.

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#78

Post by fzeroracer »

BowBun wrote: post #47
fzeroracer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure what's more topical is Trump telling all ATC controllers to leave, immediately. Rather than a shitty test that was used for a few years and then phased out.

This is disengenious. They received the same deferred resignation email that every other federal employee got. They weren't told to 'leave immediately' nor was anyone else, they were offered an option to leave or stay on for 9 months, with pay. I'm getting frustrated at 'my people' seemingly just making things up on this topic. Edit: Also linking another comment where ATC was literally told they're not in the offer..…

If I get an email from my superior telling me to either pledge loyalty or resign I'm going to read the very obvious writing on the wall here. You would have to be a massive idiot to not see it.

And the ATC was told they're not included in the offer after the emails were already sent out. Like you trying to reframe it and add more context makes it more stupid, not less.

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#79

Post by buckle8017 »

It would probably have helped if they didn't turn away thousands of qualified white male candidates.

Instead of simply biasing their hiring based on race. The FAA brilliantly denied anybody who scored too low on their "compatibility" matrix, presumably as a legal dodge.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/faa-embroiled-in-lawsuit-a...

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#80

Post by n144q »

devit wrote: post #11

Seems like it can be at least mostly automated.

Listen to some ATC communications (lots of websites and YouTube videos out there), and try to get a sense of how complicated it is.

You really think you are the first person smart enough to come up with this idea? If this worked, it would have been automated many many years ago. We probably would not even need pilots.

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