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Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

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Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#71

Post by giulianob »

boyter wrote: post #64
cek wrote: post #4

This makes me even more bullish on Xamarin/Mono. As Miguel de Icaza of Xamarin tweeted this morning after this was announced: "Wow @scottgu announces that Microsoft open sourced the Entity Framework, Mono's Achilles heel" I believe if you are building mobile clients and need to target more than one platform you should do your UI with the native APIs on each platform, but should use something like Mono to achieve as m…

Agreed. If we get first class support for MySQL with C# running on Mono I will run to C# for all my development work instantly.

The MySQL Connector/NET adapter works fine with Mono

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#72

Post by GFischer »

shanselman wrote: post #52
GFischer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company I work for uses it, I'm not thrilled - it's still rough around the edges and I'm used to writing my own SQL, but it gets the job done on the few projects I've used it (I only used V1 which was very bad).

V1 was lousy. EF5 Code First is pretty cool (combined with a micro-ORM for specific queries that might need a perf edge) and EF6 will support async and await.

Looking forward to that :) .

I've noticed you've made great strides with the latest versions, and Microsoft support here in Uruguay has always been great (in particular Pablo Garcia which now moved to Chile).

Keep up the good work :) .

Edit: I'm not on the team, but we're doing one of our main new projects with EF v4.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#73

Post by noblethrasher »

notJim wrote: post #59
jmcqk6 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of startups that have been successful on the .NET stack. The one that pops to mind first is Stack Overflow. .NET & XNA are pretty popular in indie games due to exposure to the xbox. There are many examples, but they don't tend to over lap much with the crowd here at HN.

What's the second one that pops to mind? And, because I can actually name a second one :p, what's the third?

Plenty of Fish and Justin.TV

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#74

Post by mythz »

alexro wrote: post #68
notJim wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the second one that pops to mind? And, because I can actually name a second one :p, what's the third?

The second one - even before the first one - is MySpace :)

MySpace isn't exactly a great example since many suggest its death spiral is due to their bet on Microsoft technology and .NET :) http://scobleizer.com/2011/03/24/myspaces-death-spiral-due-t...

I'm not sure Plenty of Fish is a great proof either (that .NET is good for a start-up) since it was built by just 1 man, who just uses Response.Write http://highscalability.com/plentyoffish-architecture/:

>> In the process of getting rid of ASP.NET repeaters and instead uses the append string thing or response.write...

Even as a long time .NET developer, I don't believe .NET is optimal for Internet Start-Ups. Most of the pro-web talent are in Ruby/Python/node.js camps where they enjoy first class support of all the popular web DSL's (e.g. less, sass, jade, handlebars, etc). As well as all the bundling, optimization and minification tools which were available for years in other platforms and have only recently been a supported option in .NET with System.Web.Optimization. The pro-web (Single Page App) community is relatively non-existant in .NET. E.g. none of the showcase apps on http://backbonejs.org (the most popular SPA JS fx) are in .NET.

The ASP.NET website packaging model doesn't scale (productivity-wise), since the larger the website becomes the slower build/iteration times get - which is especially important for start-ups. I do believe typed languages are better suited for typed back-end services - I just no longer believe in them for fuzzy development tasks like UI/HTML generation, automated scripts, etc.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#75

Post by boyter »

giulianob wrote: post #71
boyter wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. If we get first class support for MySQL with C# running on Mono I will run to C# for all my development work instantly.

The MySQL Connector/NET adapter works fine with Mono

The thing I want to do is essentially implement the repository pattern against the database. Keep all my models nice and simple with helpful extension methods, share the context and do the joins lazily in the service layer.

I have never been able to do it against MySQL and have it work, on Mono or .NET runtime.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#76

Post by pjmlp »

ams6110 wrote: post #39
outside1234 wrote: post #10

Its hard for me to say this in some ways, but of the bigcos, I'm most bullish on Microsoft. I might actually go stand in line (if there are any) for the Surface tablet and maybe even a Windows Phone 8 device. They are (finally) making the right moves and doing it in a consistent and open way. Any Microsoft insiders know who is driving all this change? ScottGu? Steven Sinofsky?

Seems more like a desperation move to me. Microsoft have almost no presence in popular web apps or mobile. Almost no startups or established services use the Microsoft stack. Maybe they think that by open sourcing they will get a look by devs/shops that would never have considered them before. I still think it's a long shot. The best development platform for .NET is Visual Studio and Windows. And the "cool startups"…

On Windows many new desktop applications are now being done in C# actually.

In the game industry, the game development tools which used to be developed in C++/MFC are now being coded in C#.

Microsoft is hiring compiler developers to implement native code compilation in their C#, if you search their careers portal.

Before Mac OS X, open source was also unheard of at Apple, if it wasn't for their despair at the time and the NeXTStep team, I am not sure if Apple would have so much open source projects.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#77

Post by HarveyKandola »

mythz wrote: post #74
alexro wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second one - even before the first one - is MySpace :)

MySpace isn't exactly a great example since many suggest its death spiral is due to their bet on Microsoft technology and .NET :) http://scobleizer.com/2011/03/24/myspaces-death-spiral-due-t... I'm not sure Plenty of Fish is a great proof either (that .NET is good for a start-up) since it was built by just 1 man, who just uses Response.Write http://highscalability.com/plentyoffish-architecture/ : >> In the process of…

That may be so but when selling software to large enterprises then .NET really helps. I think I would be safe in saying that most enterprises will have Windows OS somewhere in the data center. We've just built a product from the ground-up using MVC 4 (yes, beta) and it is just about to ship -- plenty of pre-orders already and the IT Police just let's us "in".

.NET is the only way I would personally want to go when targeting large enterprises with products.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#78

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

modarts wrote: post #3

Despite my usual complaints about Microsoft, I really appreciate the direction they've been heading with their adoption of open source for a growing number of their products. ScottGu, Hanselman et al. really deserve a lot of credit for the big cultural changes they've caused to allow a lot of this.

I think of it slightly differently - "I really appreciate the direction that Microsoft developer tools division has been heading with their adoption of open source for a growing number of their products.

They deserve big credit. But devs appreciate open source more than other consumers. it's hard to see how open source would work for, say, the parts of Microsoft that make Windows, Office or Xboxes.

it's easy for devs to think of Dev tools as Microsoft as a whole, but they're not the biggest part of it, and are not the ones who bring in the most money (I found this link: http://www.tannerhelland.com/3958/microsoft-money-updated-20... ).

Like it or not, the MS Windows division can therefore boss the dev tools division around (and have in Windows 8, effectively dictating the direction of .Net and WPF).

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#79

Post by mythz »

HarveyKandola wrote: post #77
mythz wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MySpace isn't exactly a great example since many suggest its death spiral is due to their bet on Microsoft technology and .NET :) http://scobleizer.com/2011/03/24/myspaces-death-spiral-due-t... I'm not sure Plenty of Fish is a great proof either (that .NET is good for a start-up) since it was built by just 1 man, who just uses Response.Write http://highscalability.com/plentyoffish-architecture/ : >> In the process of…

That may be so but when selling software to large enterprises then .NET really helps. I think I would be safe in saying that most enterprises will have Windows OS somewhere in the data center. We've just built a product from the ground-up using MVC 4 (yes, beta) and it is just about to ship -- plenty of pre-orders already and the IT Police just let's us "in". .NET is the only way I would personally want to go when ta…

Right thats for enterprise software, not startups.

I wrote a little bit about the differences here :) http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2012/03/enterprise-vs-consumer...

Re: Microsoft Open Sources their Entity Framework ORM

#80

Post by giulianob »

boyter wrote: post #75
giulianob wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MySQL Connector/NET adapter works fine with Mono

The thing I want to do is essentially implement the repository pattern against the database. Keep all my models nice and simple with helpful extension methods, share the context and do the joins lazily in the service layer. I have never been able to do it against MySQL and have it work, on Mono or .NET runtime.

Well that's got nothing to do with Mono though. Do you have any examples of what you are trying to do?
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