Will future tech companies bother making their products available in the EU? Will it be worth it, or is just too big of a risk with uncertain outcomes?
The outcome is only uncertain because they are blatantly ignoring the laws.
Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads
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Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads
#72I wonder if the next administration will put a stop to this EU trade war against US Big Tech, or if they will let specific companies (e.g. Meta & Google) continue to suffer due to a (perceived or real) bias against that admin during their 2016-2020 tenure and their political campaigns. I imagine at the very least that the company formerly known as Twitter will be protected.
Based on their stock and wealth, I don't think Meta and Google are exactly suffering. They've been getting away with this shit for, well, decades.
What does that have to do with anything? You don't become an economic super power by letting poorer countries tax your richest companies.
Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads
#73I suspect the latter part is so commonplace that many technologists don't even think twice about it. > Unilaterally imposing unfair trading conditions on other online classified ads service providers who advertise on Meta's platforms, in particular on its very popular social networks Facebook and Instagram. This allows Meta to use ads-related data generated by other advertisers for the sole benefit of Facebook Market…
Can you clarify the abusive part? In your scenario, Alice already decided not to buy anything from AcmeShop. Even if AcmeShop advertised on Facebook it wouldn't have changed her behavior. She got a better deal on Facebook Marketplace. And she was already visiting Facebook and the Marketplace is already a single click. I don't see the abusive or predatory part. It seems like Facebook Marketplace just offered a superio…
> In your scenario, Alice already decided not to buy anything from AcmeShop.
Not really, that's exactly what "remarketing" ads are for — companies track people's interest and remind them of their products. However, in this case, Facebook is double dipping by taking money from their paying customer (AcmeShop), and then using data they obtained whilst serving their paying customer to frontrun the customer.
If you or I tried something like that with Facebook — say, taking salary from Facebook and also using data we accessed through our role to undermine Facebook's business — it'd clearly be both illegal and immoral. Somehow, with enough layers of indirection, for a lot of people the same play is acceptable when Facebook does it.
Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Based on their stock and wealth, I don't think Meta and Google are exactly suffering. They've been getting away with this shit for, well, decades.
What does that have to do with anything? You don't become an economic super power by letting poorer countries tax your richest companies.
but you can become an economic super power by avoiding tax smaller companies pay?
Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads
#75It surprises me how many people here are against this decision, and expressing sentiment that this is bad for the EU tech scene. Meta has been fined because they employed tactics to undermine competition and persistently employ anti-competitive tactics. Why is it wrong for the EU to force companies to obey it's laws and act in the best interest of it's inhabitants? The companies being targeted are some of the biggest…
The 'anti-competitive' practices make the product better. It keeps you in their ecosystem that is more trust worthy than third parties. For instance, I avoid the third party crap on Amazon that's not managed by them because they're usually awful, weird pricing almost like they're hoping someone accidentally buys it and shipping takes long.
Is it 'anti-competitive' that Amazon pushes their stuff? I don't really care, its just a better product for Amazon. If I wanted the third party crap, I'd go to eBay.
So a lot of these regulations that are supposed to promote competition actually make the product worse.
Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another classic case of US Tech Companies 'disrupting first, apologising later' by ignoring Consumer protection legislation when it suits their bottom line.
This has nothing to do with consumer protection. And anyway the EU never had specific legislation at the time Marketplace was introduced hence why they are having to use the EEA agreement as the basis for their actions. Which is basically a generic "do nothing bad" clause.
It has everything to do with Consumer protection. Meta tied its online classified ad business to its social network, automatically exposing Facebook users to Marketplace without any question of consent.
It then exacerbated this by imposing unfair trading conditions with a terms of service that authorised the company to use ad-related data — generated from competitors who advertise on Facebook or Instagram — to benefit Marketplace.
The reason the use EEA legislation is presumably because Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway are EEA but not EU states, but fall under scope here.
Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's 100% predatory. I hope we will see similar cases brought against Amazon soon (if they haven't been already). The fact that so many companies are dependent on selling on Amazon, yet Amazon also sells their own products, is ludicrous. - AcmeShop sells 3d printers and sell on Amazon - Amazon sees these printers are selling well - Amazon buys/creates their own 3d printer brand - Amazon gives their own products prefe…
Is Amazon able to make a better value 3d printer? If yes, seems like consumers win? If no, then people will lose trust on Amazon over time and will use other shopping platforms. So Amazon is basically trading short-term profit for long-term profit.
Consumers win when there is continued competition. Short term, sure, consumers get a better printer, but once Amazon has taken over the market where is the drive to make anything better or cheaper? It's competition 101..
I think a lot of American's have lost trust in AT&T, Time Warner Cable, but it doesn't meant they're not forced to use them.
If you control the pipes you should not be allowed to also sell the water in those pipes. You will always be in a far greater position to take advantage and become a monopoly, which, is well documented, hurts consumers.
Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads
#78It surprises me how many people here are against this decision, and expressing sentiment that this is bad for the EU tech scene. Meta has been fined because they employed tactics to undermine competition and persistently employ anti-competitive tactics. Why is it wrong for the EU to force companies to obey it's laws and act in the best interest of it's inhabitants? The companies being targeted are some of the biggest…
> Meta has been fined because they employed tactics to undermine competition and persistently employ anti-competitive tactics.
If you could list out the "employed tactics" that "undermine competition", that would be helpful in understanding your case. Marketplace ads seems like a natural extension of the Meta ad product, so it's not clear how this is anti-competitive. Any other marketplace can also run ads on Meta as well if they wanted.
Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you live in the EU? From where I stand I mostly got cookie banners, can't get to Google maps or flights from Google search, get AI launches 6 months after the rest of the world if at all etc.. Not yet feeling all the consumer benefits
Your pictures weren't used to train AI models. Facebook can no longer create shadow profiles for people who aren't on it and thus can't consent. You can ask any company to tell you all they know about you, and delete it (with some small regulatory exceptions). You don't have 50 different chargers in your home. And a million other things.
> Your pictures weren't used to train AI models.
This is almost certainly untrue. But if it gives you a piece of mind, so be it.
> Facebook can no longer create shadow profiles for people who aren't on it.
What impact does Facebook not having a ledger with my name on it have on my life? You still have ads and tracking in Europe, except now with cookie banners.
> You can ask any company to tell you all they know about you, and delete it (with some small regulatory exceptions).
Have you ever done this?
> You don't have 50 different chargers in your home.
I don't need anyone telling me what types of devices to buy. I prefer competition and can make up my own mind about chargers. Role of the state is not de-cluttering my home.
I'd prefer Google Maps and free 2 day shipping to these. Not to mention $300k+ developer salaries compared to 55k a year. But I guess you don't have to check your emails after 5, so there's that.
Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads
#80I suspect the latter part is so commonplace that many technologists don't even think twice about it. > Unilaterally imposing unfair trading conditions on other online classified ads service providers who advertise on Meta's platforms, in particular on its very popular social networks Facebook and Instagram. This allows Meta to use ads-related data generated by other advertisers for the sole benefit of Facebook Market…
But this is how online advertising works. AcmeShop can equally run ads on other companies 3D printers on Facebook. And they can equally run ads on Google about Facebook Marketplace.
"Normal" online advertising is neutral with respect to companies bidding on placements. Not so much with Facebook, which is under no obligation to run a bid on every ad they serve. Some of those ads are dedicated Marketplace ads, and AcmeShop can't bid on them, or even limit access to the data that Facebook collected while performing their contractual duties to AcmeShop.