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Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

retrocomputing.stackexchange.com

71–79 of 79 posts

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#71
Early 1990s dec machines: 3100 m series and 4000- 60 90 90a 705

If you have a modern scsi2sd card solution as your drive, off is fine. Just make sure all fans can spin prior to boot.

If you have a classic SCSI or expansion box with a big SCSI, on. Same situation if you have functioning dssi drives. Let them spin.

Don't have to read/write or full boot just get to Chevron prompts and do a show dev to get it all spinning.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#72

I have a 42 year old apple //e that had been in an uninsulated attic in Boston for 30+ years. It booted fine and all the 5 1/4" floppies worked. I know that C64s need the caps replaced and the org external power supplies can catch fire. I'd be really surprised if 1990's pcs failed. There was a period of transition to non-lead solder where many pcbs from that era suffered shorts from whiskering but everything else sho…

1990's PC's have Varta bios batteries soldered on that leak and destroy the motherboard. Or they have Dallas real time clocks with dead batteries.

I'm staring at a PC-AT mobo from 1988 with an AMD-branded 286 chip that also says Copyright Intel (lol), and the battery has leaked a white film.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#73
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't a (plugged-in) UPS have similar isolation?

A online UPS has in line: a rectifier with its transformer and output-smoothing capacitors, a huuuge battery, surge capacitors, power transistors, another transformer and more capacitors. And only then comes the actual device with its PSU. It takes an awful lot of power to smash through these multiple layers of insulation and bypass all the capacitors, at least if the PSU is properly designed (specifically, clearance…

Yes, but only the transformers will provide the galvanic isolation. And if the windings are not physically separated then you are basically in the same situation.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turbo was all about slowing down a 486-/Pentium-class machine to work with programs and some ISA cards that required a slower CPU and/or XT bus speeds.

wait... so turbo made it slower ?

De-pressing turbo made the computer slower. Pressing it made the computer run at its normal speed.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some old components will be, sure, but there are some chips that aren't manufactured anymore. There's no one blanket rule.

I doubt it would be impossible to replace a Pentium 2 machine in most of the western world for at least the next 20 years.

Pentium 2s aren't the only retro computers out there. There's many different computers, especially in the 1980s, that have components that are just simply not made anymore -- break one of those components, and you'll have a hard time repairing / replacing them.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#77
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't a (plugged-in) UPS have similar isolation?

A online UPS has in line: a rectifier with its transformer and output-smoothing capacitors, a huuuge battery, surge capacitors, power transistors, another transformer and more capacitors. And only then comes the actual device with its PSU. It takes an awful lot of power to smash through these multiple layers of insulation and bypass all the capacitors, at least if the PSU is properly designed (specifically, clearance…

Most UPS that you’d plug into a socket aren’t online/double conversion though, they’re line-interactive.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#78
post #3

My two cents: If we are talking about 1970s and '80s machines, they tend to run pretty hot, related to the PSU technology. Things like electrolytic capacitors "don't like this" and may contribute to cascading failures. PSU failures are apt to fry some chips, some of which may be hard to come by. So, better keep them cool = off. If you consider machines from the 2000s retro, continuous run, avoiding the stresses cause…

There's also a small amount of wear simply from the drag of electrons running through the fine filament threads of wire they are piped through. The longer this goes on the more electron tunneling will happen, degrading the CPUs performance.

We don't notice them on larger wires as the wear is infinitesimal, but in a CPU where the wire diameters are in the micron scale and below there is likely a maximum lifetime of usage before the whole system becomes inoperable.

Might be 500 years of continual usage, might be 50, I don't know and I don't think anyone has done a long-term study on how long a CPU can be continuously operated before it fails, but the risk is there.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or that click of death that plagued zip drives.

My Dell had one in college. Everyone thought it was cool until the click-CLICK click-CLICK. Dell replaced it twice. Then I gave up. When did I ever really need to transfer 100MB anyway?

The click of death was transferrable via a disk having been damaged by a drive with the c-o-d, that's why 'replacing the drive' wasn't really a solution, you'd need to also throw all your zip disks and buy new.

Basically, it was a hardware virus.

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