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Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

retrocomputing.stackexchange.com

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Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#21

Post by parpfish »

dr_kiszonka wrote: post #6
raverbashing wrote: post #4

Honestly emulators work better than the real thing 99% of the time, so I don't feel the need to play with flaky and dusty 30yr old hardware

Yeah, but they don't emulate the smells, the sound of fans spinning up and the gentle breeze they generate, the beeps and boops, the tick tick tick hard drives make, the long travel of keys on that old keyboard with a slightly sticky shift (gotta be from that coffee I spilled in '97).

I miss the scraping hard drive noises with a flickering “HDD” light and a mysterious “Turbo” indicator when my 90s PC had to work hard

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#22

Post by emersonrsantos »

icehawk wrote: post #19
emersonrsantos wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but in many cases, it's not the integrated circuits (ICs) that fail, because they tend to be quite reliable. It's more often the capacitors, resistors, storage devices and power supply components that degrade over time. Capacitors, in particular, can fail due to heat, aging, or voltage surges, which can lead to failure in devices even if the ICs are still in good condition. Power sources can also fail du…

> It's more often the capacitors And the electrolyte can and will start to leak and foul the ICs around them, if not by ruining the traces/pads, then they can also foul the legs and/or find their way into the chip package itself, so the ICs will fail as a secondary issue.

So better to turn it on sometimes, without power cycling so much, to keep the electrolyte fluids wet, to extend the equipment life. Let it rot and dry and it will.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#23

Post by deafpolygon »

dr_kiszonka wrote: post #6
raverbashing wrote: post #4

Honestly emulators work better than the real thing 99% of the time, so I don't feel the need to play with flaky and dusty 30yr old hardware

Yeah, but they don't emulate the smells, the sound of fans spinning up and the gentle breeze they generate, the beeps and boops, the tick tick tick hard drives make, the long travel of keys on that old keyboard with a slightly sticky shift (gotta be from that coffee I spilled in '97).

Or that click of death that plagued zip drives.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#24

Post by userbinator »

emersonrsantos wrote: post #15
acherion wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some old components will be, sure, but there are some chips that aren't manufactured anymore. There's no one blanket rule.

That's true, but in many cases, it's not the integrated circuits (ICs) that fail, because they tend to be quite reliable. It's more often the capacitors, resistors, storage devices and power supply components that degrade over time. Capacitors, in particular, can fail due to heat, aging, or voltage surges, which can lead to failure in devices even if the ICs are still in good condition. Power sources can also fail du…

I've seen enough electronics repair videos that it seems the default for troubleshooting absent other conspicuous damage is to start checking the electrolytic capacitors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#25

Post by userbinator »

emersonrsantos wrote: post #22
icehawk wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's more often the capacitors And the electrolyte can and will start to leak and foul the ICs around them, if not by ruining the traces/pads, then they can also foul the legs and/or find their way into the chip package itself, so the ICs will fail as a secondary issue.

So better to turn it on sometimes, without power cycling so much, to keep the electrolyte fluids wet, to extend the equipment life. Let it rot and dry and it will.

That's not how it works.

Electrolytics which have not had voltage applied in a long time (decades) may need gradual reforming, but if they aren't hermetically sealed they will dry out no matter what --- and heat will accelerate that process.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#26

Post by AlotOfReading »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #16
acherion wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some old components will be, sure, but there are some chips that aren't manufactured anymore. There's no one blanket rule.

I doubt it would be impossible to replace a Pentium 2 machine in most of the western world for at least the next 20 years.

I worked at a company that decided to do a new design because the chips for the old one had been out of production for decades and a solid percentage of what was still available on eBay was sitting in the warehouse to be scavenged for new production.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#27

Post by anonzzzies »

I switch most of mine (70-80s) on a few times a year and of them I use a lot (weekend game dev); I have to replace capacitors quite often, but outside that they all work. Unlike more recent (2000+) pc stuff which is all dead. All Sun and SGI stuff still works well though.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#28

Post by earle_wa »

masswerk wrote: post #3

My two cents: If we are talking about 1970s and '80s machines, they tend to run pretty hot, related to the PSU technology. Things like electrolytic capacitors "don't like this" and may contribute to cascading failures. PSU failures are apt to fry some chips, some of which may be hard to come by. So, better keep them cool = off. If you consider machines from the 2000s retro, continuous run, avoiding the stresses cause…

Apple will always have the best RAM. They get to pick from the donut of wafer, and have testing processes rivaling that of the fabs.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#29

Post by flomo »

dr_kiszonka wrote: post #6
raverbashing wrote: post #4

Honestly emulators work better than the real thing 99% of the time, so I don't feel the need to play with flaky and dusty 30yr old hardware

Yeah, but they don't emulate the smells, the sound of fans spinning up and the gentle breeze they generate, the beeps and boops, the tick tick tick hard drives make, the long travel of keys on that old keyboard with a slightly sticky shift (gotta be from that coffee I spilled in '97).

Yes, but old computers also do not do that, because they no longer work. (And if they do, it's not with some 30 year old hard drive.) Maybe 80% of the working computers I have put on the shelf do not even boot after a few years. It's a fair question, I think. Maybe electronics just lose their spirit.

Re: Are retrocomputers best left on or off?

#30

Post by yard2010 »

Dalewyn wrote: post #18
Palomides wrote: post #7

if you never turn the computer on, why does it matter if it's hypothetically still functional? boot it occasionally, the only thing that keeps a machine alive is someone caring for it

>why does it matter Because you aren't a cat whose owner is called Schroedinger.

Am I, or am I not? Who could tell?
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