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Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

unreadyandwilling.com

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Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#71

Should be Titled: "Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase MY Happiness". For me it does but I practice a very different and rare form of meditation. I can only call it "Sleeping Awake". Which took a while to achieve. Basically, when you go to sleep at night your body slows its breathing & heart rate and you loose feeling of your limbs, while your mind looses consciousness and you black out. Your body and mind shut…

Can you recommend any tutorials or books about this type of meditation? I'm curious.

Kind of sounds a bit like lucid dreaming, or astral projection.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are huge numbers of claims, but who among the multitudes has the evidence? If any Buddhist monks or temple has Buddha's teachings, they should also have the ways of life from the problems to the resolutions. But they don't have them, and instead they use meditation to trick people into giving up the real answers. It's the same thing as giving themselves up. This is an important point and the root cause of this…

> There are huge numbers of claims, but who among the multitudes has the evidence? And here you are making all kinds of claims, without presenting a shred of evidence. Ponder on that.

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Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#73
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are huge numbers of claims, but who among the multitudes has the evidence? And here you are making all kinds of claims, without presenting a shred of evidence. Ponder on that.

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If he can't prove it (since you can't prove a negative) he shouldn't be claiming that he knows that it hasn't happened and everyone is faking it; worse, he claims to know it happened only twice in history; and worse that his master was the second one other than Buddha himself. He's the one making wild positive claims here, the burden of proof is upon him to support them with evidence. That's why I don't have to prove anything; I've made no claims at all, why would I have to prove anything?

Don't throw your lot in with anyone making claims they can't back up; but make sure your paying attentions to who's making the claims and whether they're proper non negative claims.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are huge numbers of claims, but who among the multitudes has the evidence? If any Buddhist monks or temple has Buddha's teachings, they should also have the ways of life from the problems to the resolutions. But they don't have them, and instead they use meditation to trick people into giving up the real answers. It's the same thing as giving themselves up. This is an important point and the root cause of this…

Since when was enlightenment equal to having perfect phenomenal knowledge? You seem to be equating enlightenment with omniscience. Are you not? Please tell us what questions you are asking as a qualifier on whether or not someone is enlightened.

Why do hot dogs come in packages of ten and hot dog buns come in packages of eight?

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you recommend any tutorials or books about this type of meditation? I'm curious.

Kind of sounds a bit like lucid dreaming, or astral projection.

It would be lucid dreaming if he went deeper, but if he's still just seeing just black he's not deep enough into it for the dreaming to start. Next come color blobs, then sounds, then flashes of imagery and eventually full on 3d as if you're there dreaming. It's wicked to maintain consciousness without blacking out from the waking state into the dream state.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#76
Love the discussion here and I'd be happy to add a few thoughts when I set aside some time to. Just wanted to point out that there's a much higher quality version of the video than the one I originally linked to in the post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCwC7XBQq9o

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#77
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

If he can't prove it (since you can't prove a negative) he shouldn't be claiming that he knows that it hasn't happened and everyone is faking it; worse, he claims to know it happened only twice in history; and worse that his master was the second one other than Buddha himself. He's the one making wild positive claims here, the burden of proof is upon him to support them with evidence. That's why I don't have to prove…

Spot on, gnaritas. Karl Popper wouldn't change a word in your reasoning.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#78
post #69
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But buddhists generally aren't vague, they are extremely expressive about what they are talking about. Are you refering to something specific?

I've heard a lot of Buddhists talk about mind being separate from body. If you push them on it they get very vague very quickly.

What's generally meant by the mind being separate from the body is that the idea that we control our bodies by thinking is actually an illusion. The way Buddhists know this is that in the body starts controlling itself without any input from the mind, something you can experience relatively easily from meditating. It only took me about 6 or 7 days to achieve the beginnings of this. (Scared the crap out of me, but it was insanely cool at the same time.)

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#79

Should be Titled: "Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase MY Happiness". For me it does but I practice a very different and rare form of meditation. I can only call it "Sleeping Awake". Which took a while to achieve. Basically, when you go to sleep at night your body slows its breathing & heart rate and you loose feeling of your limbs, while your mind looses consciousness and you black out. Your body and mind shut…

For anyone thinking of checking this out, try a sensory deprivation tank --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_tank

Amazing experience. Similar to how OP describes.

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase Happiness

#80

Should be Titled: "Why Meditation Doesn't Directly Increase MY Happiness". For me it does but I practice a very different and rare form of meditation. I can only call it "Sleeping Awake". Which took a while to achieve. Basically, when you go to sleep at night your body slows its breathing & heart rate and you loose feeling of your limbs, while your mind looses consciousness and you black out. Your body and mind shut…

@ChrisNorstrom: I agree with you, as an hour a day of meditation for a year (which is a lot and highly commendable) didn't seem to work for KenjiCrosland.

I too am a novice in pursuit of happiness, with just some basic lessons taken from teachers plus some self learning. However, like you my experience has been much more positive.

My take is similar to what others have mentioned in their comments: meditation is but one of a number of legs on which true happiness stands. It is through meditation that one gets glimpses of what Buddhists call the "nature of mind". These only remain glimpses until you build the other legs: boddhicitta (poorly translated into English as compassion) and a deep-seated realization that all things are impermanent. The practice of boddhicitta and the understanding of impermanence, among others, are the antidote to ego or the concept of the self, the prime cause of all suffering which arises from the desire and craving that comes part and parcel with ego. Boddhicitta requires the building of a thought process of thinking more of others, and gradual surrender of the desires for oneself (less of I, me, mine, etc). Practice all these elements together with meditation and I'm pretty certain one can only be the better for it. In my opinion Kenji is lacking the other aspects without which meditation can't provide happiness.

It's worth noting that "happiness" is a loaded term, quite different for different people. I'm taking a good guess that in it's ultimate form, Buddhist masters would equate happiness with enlightenment with nature of mind, which is what one sees glimpses of while meditating. IMHO, that itself is something to chew upon.

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