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Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)

olivergrimsley.com

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Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)

#71

Post by cynicalsecurity »

friendzis wrote: post #61
dusted wrote: post #7

The cookie policy is a stupid value-signalling stunt with only negative real-life effects. The correct way of handling the problem would have been through request headers and browser settings, or simply, use the existing option of either allowing or disallowing cookies, and put this option on a per-site basis and a bit more into the users face..

GDPR compliance can be implement many ways, starting with not collecting data in the first place. Even if data is collected and sold it is still both possible and arguably even easier to implement GDPR compliance without cookie pop ups. However, we have codecamp graduates gluing left-pad modules together until something works instead of engineers building websites and it shows.

Neither "graduates" nor "engineers" are responsible for any website functionality. They simply do the work that the management requested them to do.

Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)

#72

Post by wkat4242 »

> Enact a law that requires a service to respect the do not track signal from a browser (currently entirely voluntary), and not store any tracking cookies, clear gifs or other trackers – and require that a site not “discriminate” against users who elect no tracking – basically – provide all functions to users whether they consent or do not consent.

This is indeed the obvious solution. I don't understand why the EU didn't mandate the do not track flag to be obeyed. I know some browsers already removed it but that was because nobody bothered to obey it. As soon as it can be mandated it will be useful and come back quickly.

Also, there was criticism from the advertising industry that the do not track was on by default but that's how tracking should work in the EU anyway: opt in.

By not doing this the EU keeps getting flak for the many cookie walls.

Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)

#73

Post by kalaksi »

o_m wrote: post #54
scarlehoff wrote: post #5

Please stop - selling our data to advertisers.

For that to work users have to spend money on their services. I hope that will happen in the future, but until then it is hard to compete with free services that has ads.

They probably still track you even if you paid money, so that makes paying less enticing. And it's prudent to assume so unless they clearly state otherwise

Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)

#74

Post by wkat4242 »

anonzzzies wrote: post #63
wkat4242 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever seen a marketeer say no to more data?

Because it is there: don't make them choose; we have x and nothing more so you cannot have more.

Yeah but there's the rub. Asking Google to take analytics away just isn't going to happen. It makes them billions.

And marketeers want this data because sales data only tells them where they succeeded. Not where they failed to sell, which is more interesting to them because that's where the growth is found.

It'll be really hard to wean them off this.

Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)

#75

Post by troupo »

michaelteter wrote: post #17
dehrmann wrote: post #6

The larger lesson here is this is what happens when governments try to regulate things they don't understand. Cookie popups just add friction, and it's not clear consumers see any real privacy benefit. What's even worse is people seem to not care that the policy isn't working, but they aren't telling lawmakers to fix it.

I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. I believe the way you stated this is accurate. The regulation and its outcome was clearly not understood or intended by those who mandated it. Absolutely everyone is suffering from this. As for the "not care", I think the primary issue is that most people don't make much effort to understand the things they use. If they understood what was going on, they would be more upset an…

GDPR is general regulation that doesn't even talk about cookies or browsers.

The obnoxious cookie popups is the industry's malicious and calculated response.

Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)

#76

Post by randoomed »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #31

> it is not legally required to provide the service if a user declines tracking cookies. The site can simply not provide functionality. So in many cases, its not really a choice – the choice is either not to use the site, or consent to tracking. to be fair that is the choice. And ideally, the invisible hand would show that this is a horrible idea and cause a huge spike in traffic, but alas. I think "stop putting popu…

Unfortunately that (quoted) line is incorrect see this page by the dutch privacy authority: https://www.autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/en/themes/internet... It is based on this 2019 ruling also by this same authority (unfortunately only available in dutch) https://www.autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/documenten/normuit...

While this ruling does not specifically only use the ePrivacy directive (it is instead based in GDPR), laws do not exist in a vacuum.

Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)

#77

Post by troupo »

michaelteter wrote: post #17
dehrmann wrote: post #6

The larger lesson here is this is what happens when governments try to regulate things they don't understand. Cookie popups just add friction, and it's not clear consumers see any real privacy benefit. What's even worse is people seem to not care that the policy isn't working, but they aren't telling lawmakers to fix it.

I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. I believe the way you stated this is accurate. The regulation and its outcome was clearly not understood or intended by those who mandated it. Absolutely everyone is suffering from this. As for the "not care", I think the primary issue is that most people don't make much effort to understand the things they use. If they understood what was going on, they would be more upset an…

GDPR is general regulation that doesn't even talk about cookies or browsers.

The obnoxious cookie popups is the industry's malicious and calculated response.

This is a good sibling comment about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41576346

Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)

#78

Post by cynicalsecurity »

litenboll wrote: post #28
sofixa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your preferences should be on the website level though, not global. And you should be asked about it on first visiting the website. Let me explain why with an example: say you're the type of people who doesn't care about "privacy" online ("I've got nothing to hide"), or you do; and you want to "support " certain ad-supported websites you're a fan of; but not that new clickbait toilet paper your aunt sends you. I can'…

The important part here is that it's at the browser level, IMO. Then it's the user's choice to either reject/accept all by default or get prompted once per page. I'd guess that 99.9% want to set it globally and never think about it again.

It's been on the browser level for ages. It's the DoNotTrack http header. The websites simply ignore it and hope the users will simply keep pressing the consent button.

Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)

#79

Post by troupo »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #12

So, the problem with this is: the law. If you use session management: GOOD NEWS GDPR AND CPPA UNDER PENALTY OF THE COURTS DEMAND YOU INFORM USERS and if you know a better way than an intrusive "accept this before you can continue" by all means pipe up but the problem is overbearing laws, not "people following them". The law requires that you disallow access until people tell you their position on your handling of the…

1. you don't need consent for functionality strictly required for the functionality of your product. Such as session management

2. You are allowed to legitimately process PII for legitimate purposes related to your business: e.g. combating fraud

3. What you emphatically aren't allowed without consent: collect vast amounts of data, store it indefinitely, and sell it to 15 000 third party "partners"

Re: Please stop putting cookie pop-ups on your website (2022)

#80

Post by blkhawk »

nikanj wrote: post #33

Malicious compliance gets the website two benefits: 1) Annoying the customer enough with the popups might net a permission to track from an user who originally did not want the cookies 2) Making the cookie banners as frustrating as possible increases the political pressure against the EU, hopefully leading to them repelling the anti-tracking legislation There's no upsides for a website from providing an easy "Never t…

The issue is also that the cookie banner has become a meme for non technical "deciders". That means even sites that do not track you will have the banner.
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