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US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

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Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#71
post #46

While I don't doubt the facts and EPA analysis around the case and the measurements, how many other local residents reported this and are fighting it?

This is also what I wonder. So far the EPA has found a few faults, but with only one self reported case of humans affected among thousands of potential victims this whole story could still tip towards either "this is bad but all too common" and "this is a gigantic scandal of obscene proportions." The latter one makes for a better news story and twitter threads, but that also doesn't make every suspicion in there true by default.

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#72

The author of this has been on a crusade against Apple for years, stemming from an incident that was probably hypochondria. They've outright lied about multiple incidents (see https://twitter.com/shantinix/status/1433297575914971136 ), and I would very strongly doubt any new claims made. For example, a spot check of one of the claims has them currently saying "Still, Gjovik’s limited testing returned results showing…

This is in line of when I worked in a semiconductor lab in suburban UK in the 90s. We had a couple of local residents report problems immediately even though we hadn't even started fabrication at that point. They eventually sent out a press release saying that we had moved manufacturing to Scotland. The complaints stopped instantly. The lab was running until at least 2017 with no complaints and regular inspections from local authorities.

YMMV but some people are crazy. The EPA is however not. But what the EPA say and what the woman claims are disparate.

Edit: to be clear I'd expect the EPA to install independently maintained monitoring equipment which is not subject to the bias of Apple or the reporter. Then collect more data!

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#73
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your slander doesn't mesh with the EPA report.

My "slander" is a quote from the author .

You haven't shown the lie you claim exists. Those could be references to completely different tests. (Or not, but from the limited information we can't say either way)

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#74

Americans discovering the real reason why things are made in China

Or third world countries in general. As sexy as made in home country sounds, modern day manufacturing is truly deadly.

Look at the chemical exposure Samsung treats their workers to. It happened in south Korea, but that's an other country, so it didn't matter. But it also happened in Canada, now it's news.

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#75
post #52

Apple is dominated by ruthless managers and is an evil corporation. I'm not surprised. Imagine if you happen to be a neighbor and a disaster happens in the fab. That's just nuts.

All publicly traded companies with a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders will always externalize any cost they can. The problem is bigger than Apple.

I don’t know. As a shareholder it sounds like the dumbest move ever. In what universe would it make sense to have a fab so close to an appartment building and vent toxic gas. It’s a PR disaster waiting to happen. Whatever savings you make by avoiding regulation you pay back in fines and reputation damages.

What is it they saved here? Could they not fab this in a less populated area and just follow a few more regulations. We’re not talking about a company with razor thin margins. They spent outrageous amounts of money building the spaceship HQ.

I genuinely want to understand if this is stupidity or if there’s really a profit incentive that makes “fiduciary” sense.

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#77
post #46

While I don't doubt the facts and EPA analysis around the case and the measurements, how many other local residents reported this and are fighting it?

This is also what I wonder. So far the EPA has found a few faults, but with only one self reported case of humans affected among thousands of potential victims this whole story could still tip towards either "this is bad but all too common" and "this is a gigantic scandal of obscene proportions." The latter one makes for a better news story and twitter threads, but that also doesn't make every suspicion in there true…

It could be a combination of a few things. Maybe some people aren’t as sensitive as this lady. Maybe some moved out. And possibly many just haven’t spoken up or even are aware of such a factory releasing gasses.

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#78

The author of this has been on a crusade against Apple for years, stemming from an incident that was probably hypochondria. They've outright lied about multiple incidents (see https://twitter.com/shantinix/status/1433297575914971136 ), and I would very strongly doubt any new claims made. For example, a spot check of one of the claims has them currently saying "Still, Gjovik’s limited testing returned results showing…

It's really hard to "catch" these things in the moment. I work in chemical plants and there are tons of huge releases of extremely toxic gases all the time, which I can often smell from my apartment. I know what they are by smell because I manufacture them myself. Proper continuous monitoring for a broad range of chemicals would cost about $1 million per monitoring station and we'd need to build them along the perimeters of each plant so that leaks can be assigned to the offending companies, and they need to be built near housing so that we know how families are being affected. That sounds expensive, but really isn't that much added cost for a $100 million to $10 billion manufacturing site.

I live in the western hemisphere's largest integrated industrial complex (Freeport, TX integrated with the eastern edge of Houston as well). Note that Freeport, TX has ZERO state or federal EPA VOC analyzers which can actually detect which chemical is leaking. They can only detect "this amount of something with either {sulfur, N-O bonds, aromatic carbon rings} -- no clue what precisely though!". This is the same capability of the most advanced atmospheric pollution satellites. Completely fucking useless for an area which manufactures something like 15-20% of all USA domestic chemicals. The technology to measure individual chemicals exists, but the government isn't paying for it or installing it.

The ENTIRE east side of Houston metropolitan area is dedicated to or "next door" to massive chemical manufacturing. This is an industrial area nearly equal to the area encompassing all of Seattle+Bellevue+Redmond+Renton+Tukwila. That's not including nearby housing - that's just how big the manufacturing facilities themselves are! This massive area has only THREE air quality monitors which test for these kinds of chemicals[0]. During huge major events like the ITC fire[2], they typically show no increased pollution at all, which proves that it's woefully inadequate even during big emergencies that very obviously affect breathing air quality. I lived next to leaks every day and because I worked in the plants I knew the smells - one day acrylates, next day thiols, next day hydrocarbons, etc. But all 3 monitoring sites (over 10 miles from me) showed nothing at all.

Here is the one "correct" monitoring station near the chemical plants of Houston: [0]... but several of its analyzers are often offline/broken/pending maintenance. Here's a map of all the other ones: [1] Generally single/dual color dots mark "not-useful" monitoring sites which might measure only PM2.5 or Ozone, for example. The 4+ color dots are generally useful, they measure specific (large) families of chemicals so you can see very roughly what is leaking, even if it doesn't have "soot" in it.

The data used by ProPublica[3] is actually far worse than the woefully inadequate data collected by TCEQ/EPA air monitoring stations -- because what ProPublica used was "self-reported" data from the chemical plants. But I know from working in them and living next to them that many leaks are never reported and many leaks are never even known internally! Our government's data collection is a travesty. ProPublica couldn't use the real air quality measurements because having 2-3 points across 1000 mi^2 is completely useless for the wind models they wanted to apply to the problem. We don't actually have any data. The government is failing us.

ITC fire which blanketed houston's sky in smoke: [2]

: https://tceq.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id...

1: https://tceq.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id...

2: https://abc13.com/deer-park-fire-2019-itc-houston-air-qualit...

3: https://www.propublica.org/nerds/visualizing-toxic-air

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#79

Apple, you have infinite money. Just pay this lady the $50,000,000 she wants so she can move to a nice clean place over in Atherton. And pay your fines to the government and move your fabs to remote areas so this doesn’t happen again. There, problem solved. I’ve saved everyone millions of dollars in litigation fees, time, and now our judiciary system can tackle other problems.

I cannot tell if you are joking or not. But it is obvious she is litigating in public until she gets the payoff she wants:

https://mastodon.social/@ashleygjovik

Of course a big corp cannot give in easily to behaviour like that as it would just open the flood gates.

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#80
post #61

There should be more strict zoning laws. You can't have industrial processes happening anywhere near homes like these. I thought California was strict on zoning?

“Silicon” Valley was a super-fund site full of contamination long before this was desirable to live in. The semiconductor industry poisoned the valley decades ago. Santa Clara county has more superfund sites than any other county in the US.

If there is an issue, it’s that these apartments were built (in ~2018). There are a number of other industrial sites nearby and the building was built in industrial zoning, after agreeing to numerous requirements to clean up the land to make it safe.

https://www.envirostor.dtsc.ca.gov/getfile?filename=/public%...

https://www.santaclaraca.gov/home/showdocument?id=17071

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