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Scientists should use AI as a tool, not an oracle

aisnakeoil.com

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Re: Scientists should use AI as a tool, not an oracle

#71

Is "leakage" just another term for overfitting?

No usually it means the data that you intend to test the model on was accidentally used to train the model. There are more complex scenarios where you get leakage without actually showing the model the test examples. Where you have features that have future information in them that you won't have at actual inference time.

So usually it ends up in overfitting, but is more about having information at training time that it shouldn't.

Re: Scientists should use AI as a tool, not an oracle

#72
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incredibly simplistic. Search engine results give a lot of context clues about the reliability of their asserted facts and provide a potential spectrum of answers. LLM-generated answers strip all that away, and give a single authoritatively phrased answer. Even if you’re inclined to disbelieve it, the LLM answer gives you no ability to dig in, refine, or compare. It just is. If you ask a chatbot if it’s sure,…

I think you overestimate people’s ability to sniff out bad data on the internet. Also are you suggesting people fact check an AI by asking it if it is correct? That seems absurd.

Pre-LLM madness, most decent scientists were capable of judging the reliability of a source, at least to an extent. Eg if the source is a paper in a decent journal, it probably has at least some substance to it and the basic facts are probably not wrong, if the paper is a zero-citation paper on vixra where none of the authors have any reasonable history, you'll probably have to check everything.

Re: Scientists should use AI as a tool, not an oracle

#73

Is "leakage" just another term for overfitting?

I think a popular example of leakage would be that of a tank recognition AI that perfectly handles training/testing data but fails in real use, because all the tanks of one country happen to have a tree in the background, while those of the other do not, effectively leaking the image label and making the model look for a tree instead of the tank. Even if you trained less or used fewer parameters, it'd still go for the easiest route of trying to detect features of a tree. You'd have to change the training data.

Re: Scientists should use AI as a tool, not an oracle

#74
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are not fact machines, we are often wrong. Do humans not have intelligence? What do you even mean by "intelligence" when you say a probabilistic syllable generator "is not intelligence"?

Like clockwork, out come the "but humans" deflections. An LLM is not a human-like intelligence. This is patently obvious, such comparisons are nonsensical and just further the problem of people anthropomorphizing a tool and treating it like an oracle.

You didn't answer the question.

Re: Scientists should use AI as a tool, not an oracle

#75
post #59

> Unfortunately, most scientific fields have succumbed to AI hype, leading to a suspension of common sense. For example, a line of research in political science claimed to predict the onset of civil war with an accuracy2 of well over 90%, a number that should sound facially impossible. (It turned out to be leakage, which is what got us interested in this whole line of research.) This coupled with people acting on its…

"accuracy2" sigh - the 2 is a superscript to a footnote and not a domain specific term. "facially impossible" ... does that really riff on "on the face of it", or is it farcically misspelt? Garbage in, garbage out 8)

"Facially" in the sense of "on the face of it", roughly as a synonym for "obviously", seems like a pretty standard usage to me—this is certainly not the first place I've seen the word used in this sense.

Re: Scientists should use AI as a tool, not an oracle

#76

In my professional work, I treat chatgpt as a search engine that I feel I can ask questions of in a natural manner. I often find small flaws in technical solutions it offers, but it can still provide useful starting points to investigate. I rarely trust code it generates (at least for the language I mainly work in) as i’ve seen it make some serious mistakes (eg: using keywords in the language that don’t exist)

> I rarely trust code it generates (at least for the language I mainly work in) as i’ve seen it make some serious mistakes (eg: using keywords in the language that don’t exist) It's only a mistake from your perspective. The model just generates text based the probabilities it learned during training. In that respect, there is no such thing as "incorrect" output because the model doesn't operate at that level of abstr…

That's like saying "there is no such thing as a bug, it's just code working the way it was written"—true in some sense, but not useful.

Re: Scientists should use AI as a tool, not an oracle

#77
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not writing with the help of GPT 4, that is letting it write for you! I can’t imagine doing anything creative and letting a computer source material for me without having reviewed the material first hand, even if it was accurate. Clearly, this is not where everyone’s head is at, and I suspect your wife’s workflow is more the common case. I’ve said from the outset that in academic settings you should be able t…

You sound like the people who used to know how to fix a car, or sew, or write cursive, or do multiplication times tables in their head, or know how to derive a formula, or check a mathematical proof. Ask anyone below 30 if they can write cursive today, or know their times tables hehe. Ask them if they can derive a formula instead of using Mathematica. Or ask a developer if they know how their pixel shaders work, or w…

If you're driving you don't need to know how to fix a car, but relying on GPT to write for you to the extent of accepting its generated citations without checking them, is the equivalent of running around looking for blinker fluid as you attempt to fix your car.

Re: Scientists should use AI as a tool, not an oracle

#78
LLMs are basically Dissociated Press, but with deeper layers of statistics for a better function approximation than a simple Markov chain. It's really doing the same thing though: pick the next sequence of characters that best follows the foregoing characters.

Not something I'd trust as a "source of truth". Maybe a neat idea generator. And some of the deep learning algorithms can identify patterns that humans might miss -- patterns that could reveal useful insight. But they're not doing the knowledge work.

Re: Scientists should use AI as a tool, not an oracle

#79
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like clockwork, out come the "but humans" deflections. An LLM is not a human-like intelligence. This is patently obvious, such comparisons are nonsensical and just further the problem of people anthropomorphizing a tool and treating it like an oracle.

You didn't answer the question.

I did, I said they aren't human-like intelligences, so countering with "humans make mistakes, are humans not intelligent?" is drawing a false equivalence between humans and LLMs.

Since we do not possess a definition of intelligence that isn't human-like, it would be meaningless to argue if LLMs are intelligent in general. All that can be said is that they are not intelligent in the way that humans are.

Re: Scientists should use AI as a tool, not an oracle

#80

People treating tools like they're infallible has been a problem since computers were invented, but IMHO the biggest difference with AI is how confident and convincing it can be in its output. Much like others here, I already have had to convince, very carefully, many otherwise-decently-intelligent people who believed ChatGPT was correct. Thus I think the biggest success of AI will be the arts, where imprecision is n…

I think this misses something important. If it makes economic sense, corporations will figure out ways to integrate AI into their processes, even if it's imperfect. After all, companies are already built out of humans who are also often confidently wrong - but successful companies have ways to detect and mitigate that. In fact, that's one of the primary requirements for a company to survive, that it's able to build a functioning system out of imperfect components, particularly humans.

You can see an example of this in the use of LLMs to generate code. In that case, there's a whole SDLC pipeline designed to detect errors: type systems, language compilers and runtimes, tests of various kinds, QA, user feedback, etc. We don't just trust confident software developers to produce correct code.

Even a life-critical function like medical imaging - where imprecision can be fatal - can potentially benefit from this, where AI is used in conjunction with human review. It mainly requires development of some standards of practice - unlike with an average user blindly trusting the output of a model, radiologists would need training on how to use the models in question.

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