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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#72Because of course they did, they like that children make fun of their peers that have a green message vs. a blue, and that's exactly what they want. They're like "ew, are you poor and can't afford a $1200 iphone?" It is now a petty, but prevalent status symbol of being better than others, namely perceived "poor" or otherwise lesser android users.
Android users have been banging this drum about the iPhone supremacists for an actual decade at this point and it so, so goddamn tiring.
I buy iPhones for a number of reasons:
- Ecosystem which has been explained at length so often you'd have to have your head under a rock to not know what it means
- Ease of transfer of data between phones/tablets and replacements, along with constant sync
- Excellent build quality
- The OS is consistently good (not perfect, but good) and devices in general have a long life from purchase to replacement. I just recently had to FINALLY replace my gen 4 Watch with an SE, that I originally purchased in 2018. That's FIVE YEARS of daily use.
"An Android" by contrast can be fucking anything from a $20 Aliexpress special farted out with spare parts from NIGYEHO Ltd. and an ancient version of the OS that barely runs on the hardware, to a mid-tier perfectly acceptable phone that will no doubt be nearly bricked in the event you try and update the OS, to a multi-thousand-dollar premiere Samsung powerhouse that would utterly spank most iPhones at most functions and will probably last you ten years if you take good care of it. And what irritates the shit out of me is Android users that treat the last one like you get it at the price of the first one, and then call Apple users elitist for buying a very similarly priced phone.
It is truly mind-bending to me how effective Google's marketing has been to paint themselves constantly as the scrappy underdog fighting the conformist and snobby Apple fanbase, which is not to say there aren't any pricks who swing their iPhone around like it makes them hot shit, there almost certainly are, but to say that's the norm is completely outside my and anyone I know's experience of the matter.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#73I miss the days when chat wasn't fragmented across apps and platforms or could at least be unified in apps like Adium. Having to have a different app installed for myriad different contacts is, at best, irritating.
Couldn't you have said "compartmentalized", or "dominated by hostile silos" or anything else that doesn't involve comparison of the state of online chatting with wars that have killed humans? I agree things were nice with adium.
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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#74Beeper CEO, from the article: "If there's enough pressure on Apple, they will have to quit messing with us." "Us," he clarified, meant both Apple's customers using iMessage and Android users trying to chat securely with iPhone friends. "That's who they're penalizing," he wrote. "It's not a Beeper vs. Apple fight, it's Apple versus customers." Not really sure how this is anti-customer. Apple customers have ample acces…
> Apple customers have ample access to iMessage, after all. It's not really fair that Apple gets to build snares around owning the most successful and important platform in modern civilization. This isn't an automobile where there are 50 alternative manufacturers, this is the "everything" device that handles your bills, employment, connections to loved ones, etc. And there's only one other choice of vendor in the Uni…
> It's not really fair that Apple gets to build snares around owning the most successful and important platform in modern civilization.
On the flip side, Apple spent a lot of effort into developing their ecosystem. It doesn't seem fair to Apple that other companies get to piggyback on Apple's investments without Apple's permission. I'm not an Apple fan, but, that kind of sounds illegal. Imagine if you were to develop something useful and then someone comes around telling you that they deserve access to your awesome thing just because, even to your own detriment - even when they haven't spent the time and effort building it or contributing to the development process.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users. Well, they can't now as a result of blocking Beeper. But they could — using Beeper. It's one thing to argue that you won't open the platform because it's additional work to support that. But that argument degrades when they're willing to do the work to shut out unexpected uses of the platform. If they want to ensure safety, the…
> " But that argument degrades when they're willing to do the work to shut out unexpected uses of the platform. " Or, as many in software engineering call it, fixing potential security holes, which is well worth any businesses time.
That's how I view it as well, this is a security issue. Beeper is gaining unauthorized access to a service and Apple doesn't like it. The fact that they are not technically breaking anything is kind of like going into a business after hours because the door wasn't locked. You still aren't authorized to be there.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#76Because of course they did, they like that children make fun of their peers that have a green message vs. a blue, and that's exactly what they want. They're like "ew, are you poor and can't afford a $1200 iphone?" It is now a petty, but prevalent status symbol of being better than others, namely perceived "poor" or otherwise lesser android users.
Which is so stupid when so many people have iphones that are handmedowns and many Androids users are much more knowledgeable with regard to technology and have much more impressive devices.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think anyone's saying apple must allow them (though such people admittedly exist on the internet, in retrospect). I think its more of disappointment at the speed at which apple is "patching" this.
As an Apple user, I'm glad they're patching this fast. It's a security issue and privacy one. Sure Beeper may be using it in a non-nefarious way, that doesn't mean bad actors aren't gonna use this to spam the heck out of iMessage users.
You know, I have been getting constant scam texts from "Amazon" for a $289 vacuum that I'm supposed to call a number to cancel the order and it's coming from an email address, or a phone number. Never really got them before in that way.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Brand new iPhones have been available for $430 on apple.com for many years now. And most young minimum wage employees with very little money and no "status" also use iPhones. It is not a signal of poor/status, it is a signal of weird/not weird, without commenting on the validity of that, of course. For example, people do not opt out of dating Android users because they think Android users are poor, they opt out becau…
That’s also entirely USA centric and a byproduct of everyone sticking to SMS-phone number systems to chat. It drives me nuts. WhatsApp. WeChat. Line. Kakao. Facebook Messenger. Most of the world has switched to these dedicated apps. Only glimmer of hope is that gen-z/gen-alpha is really into Discord (at least all the ones I know). Might finally bring down the iMessage group chats.
This whole “controversy” is because of Americans collectively stamping their feet and throwing a tantrum refusing to install WhatsApp or Signal. It’s really quite incredible.
But I share your view about Discord, I think it’s one app positioned to be the “American WeChat” in a few years if they don’t screw it up.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
> " But that argument degrades when they're willing to do the work to shut out unexpected uses of the platform. " Or, as many in software engineering call it, fixing potential security holes, which is well worth any businesses time.
That's how I view it as well, this is a security issue. Beeper is gaining unauthorized access to a service and Apple doesn't like it. The fact that they are not technically breaking anything is kind of like going into a business after hours because the door wasn't locked. You still aren't authorized to be there.
The better analogy is using a fake ID to get the locksmith to give you a copy of the house key.
The house is Apple’s servers The fake ID is spoofed device serials and UUIDs The copy of the house key is the authentication blob
Nobody would blink twice if a prosecutor threw the book at someone like that. Still, somehow, I’m sure many here would complain if the DOJ would prosecute Beeper for violating the CFAA by committing computer trespass or if Apple would sue them for violating the clause prohibiting reverse engineering in the OS license.
Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Apple customers have ample access to iMessage, after all. And as has been noted many, many times, there are many means of accessing secure cross-platform messaging. In fairness, i am a 5+ device apple customer and i can't use it on my two primary desktops. I use Beeper to write texts on my primary computer. Apple feels anti-me. I pay for products and unless i'm 100% into the ecosystem they fight me. Sure, they don'…
Yeah. I’ve got all sorts of Apple stuff in the house. One apple ecosystem piece I adore is being able to copy paste between my Apple devices. I’d love it if that worked from my Linux workstation too. C’mon, Apple.
kdeconnect has an iOS app