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From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

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Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#71
post #53

This time next year on reddit: "From working my ass off 90 hours per week running a business that wouldn't scale to nice salary/benefits for 40 hours. I'm taking home the same net and I feel like I'm on vacation." I don't want to sound too snarky and I really admire OP's initiative and ability to make things happen, but this just doesn't smell right. It's easy to get excited by nice revenue in the beginning (as he sh…

I understand the train of thought you're having. It may not be the best kind of business scaling-wise but if done right he could open some more somewhere else and horizontally scale that way. Everything can be scalable when pushed into the right direction. More branches = more employees = almost automatic administration = more money. Those are only my opinions, therefore not facts.

Another point why this result may not be typical of attempts to duplicate this business in other parts of the country is that he is doing this in Washington DC, the epicenter of where cash is being artificially injected into the economy by defecit spending. Silicon Valley, DC, and NYC exist in a different world from the rest of the US

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to take the surplus jobs he is finding them.

I'm not sure in what way your comment is a reply to mine. That is the "little" I think it's adding to the economy (matching demand/offer), yet it's just a misbalance of information and/or power that shouldn't need to exist.

Well (perhaps I misread) but it seemed that you were implying that he is getting more money than his value is worth here, and that they should instead form their own collective. My counter was that the cleaners don't need to work for this guy, they choose to, and therefore they have by definition decided that his value proposition is worthwhile.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#73
This is scalable, I am not sure why people are saying it isn't. In its current form, no, but if he puts it into high gear and takes it to the next level, there is no reason he couldn't repeat this model, hire managers etc and be completely hands off. But, that is not what I would do necessarily, I would get my franchise papers in order ASAP, and start marketing this online, there are a lot of good keywords to go after (how to start a cleaning company etc). Get it to the point where he knows exactly how to repeat this in any city and make XX,XXX$/yr for the "owner". Figure out a franchising model, where the owner of the franchise can learn how to repeat your success, and you get part of the profits/or a franchise fee (hell you could "loan" them the money at interest). Nothing sells better than telling people that you can teach them how to leave their job, make 60,000$/yr, and actually be able to do it.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#74
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also... • he seems to be comparing his prior 'take-home' (after-tax) pay with his new venture 'profits' (monthly pre-tax). • as another redditor points out, he may be in for a painful 1099-reclassified-as-employee showdown with the tax and employment authorities And yet, good on him. He's found a niche and will now rapidly get to learn the tax & employment law details.

It was refreshing to see how receptive he was to that feedback, though. Based on his responses, it seems like he is going to take an active look at how he handles employment status. It by no means signifies a guaranteed success, but it is definitely a good sign when an entrepreneur recognizes legitimate criticism about issues that could make or break his business and actively seeks to address them.

Becoming compliant isn't a paperwork task. It's going to be expensive. He hasn't been withholding any taxes; he could end up owing as much as $1000 for each prior month he failed to do that.

The city and state his business is headquartered in (he's in DC Metro so it could be any of a bunch) is also going to tear into him for unemployment taxes and fees. We had drama with this even though we don't even have independent contractors.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Workers are not pointed a gun to do the job. Given the opportunities they have, they are choosing this specific opportunity. This means that this service is increasing their expected value from the job. I don't see how this can be bad.

Read comment below for my take on that. I'm not blaming anyone or saying it's morally wrong, just exploring a different arrangement.

What's the problem then? Having management? 'Stealing' profit from the workers?

You can't seem to understand that 1000 workers doing 'their' job may be hundrends of times less productive than doing the same job under the same company. Lots of things (machinery, know how, etc.) need a company and a capital.

Finally, I also don't understand discussing capitalism. Here we are discussing freedom for individuals to work and to create a start up. What would you rather do? Force everybody down the same principles? Not sure it's right.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#76
He's not withholding. Chances are good his workers aren't paying taxes either.

According to the manual the IRS uses to train its worker classification auditors, the three most important factors are:

Instructions to workers: Your worker is probably an employee if you require him or her to follow instructions on when, where, and how work is to be done. This is a very important factor. However, if you tell your electrician you want blue switch plate covers instead of white, you are not exercising control to a degree that would make the person an employee.

Job training: If your company provides or arranges for training of any kind for the worker, this is a sign you expect work to be performed in a certain way; therefore, the worker is your employee. Training can be as informal as requiring the worker to attend meetings or work along with someone who's more experienced.

Worker's ability to make a profit or suffer a loss: An employee may be rewarded, disciplined, demoted, or fired depending on job performance, but only an independent contractor can realize a profit or incur a financial loss from his or her work. In other words, an employee will always get paid; an independent contractor, however, has a financial stake in his enterprise.

Also:

Importance of the worker's services: If a worker provides services that are integral to the success of your business, the worker is likely your employee.

Personal performance of services: An independent contractor should have the freedom to hire assistants or subcontract work to other workers or firms at his or her expense (this is where profit or loss could enter the picture). If you require the worker to perform the work personally, that's a sign of control and therefore indicative of employee status.

Ouch.

This scheme is going to work until he starts issuing 1099s and the government (maybe after months or years) notices them and goes after the workers for their (extremely expensive) self-employment taxes. Which, because they're probably making the prevailing rate for housekeepers (high teens per hour) is going to threaten to drive them into bankruptcy and thus cause a stink.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#77
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has a "detaileddddddd" checklist of how he wants the work done and a training program. His lawyer is going to tell him that they're employees. What's worse is, the better he does, the more clear-cut this issue gets. His key business metric is employee turnover, and anything he does to improve this increases the likelihood that his employees will be relying on him for most of their wages. This is a "too good to be…

Thanks. I only read the initial post. Yeah, you can't get into how to do the work. Also using anything called employee turnover is a dead stop. But I still think it's salvageable, simply because there are so many independent cleaners out there already. This industry is heavily independent. I think he really needs to look at his structure, pronto. I'll play devil's advocate just a bit more for the crowd. Many times st…

This is not the good kind of subversive. This is the kind of subversive that screws people who are making close to subsistence wages over on taxes. He spends "an hour a day" on Maids In Black now and based on his pricing and the prevailing take-home for housekeepers is taking more than half the gross from the business. That doesn't seem particularly laudable (but maybe my math is fucked up).

I don't think it's going to be easy to provide the service he wants to provide (flat-rate book-online competitive-quality housecleaning on demand) profitably under a 1099 structure.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#78

It's a nice personal achievement, but I can't help myself cringing at business models of this kind. It's plain old extraction of surplus-value, adding very little to the economy as a whole. The workers would be better off operating as a cooperative, I wish they had the education to know that from the outset, and the means to implement it.

I think this shows a confusion about what part of the problem he is solving: He is solving a MARKETING problem not a DELIVERY problem.

Yes the cleaners are probably not doing anything differently than they normally did. BUT:

-the cleaners had problems finding clients -clients had trouble finding good cleaners

If you've ever tried to find one of these folks, it's a total PIA. Basically it involves asking your friends or posting to craigslist and then wading through a bunch of crap. This is easy - find and pay online!

If you're against "extracting value" here, you should also be against grocery stores. Surely they are robbing the poor farmer by linking buyers and sellers?

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#79
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that, but the maids are not working under constant supervision or on the clock.

A detailed checklist that the cleaners have to meet sounds like supervision to me.

Let's say they're getting $20/hr. Can they themselves hire someone else at $15/hr to deliver the service (or "assist them") and pocket the difference? No? Then they're probably an employee. Contractors are supposed to have profit/loss exposure.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#80
post #17

From a business standpoint this is absolutely brilliant. Everyone should be doing this, doesn't matter if you're a SaaS or selling real-world goods & services. > 2) Having Extras at checkout. When we first started, you would checkout online and just order your home cleaning and pay. Then I had the brilliant idea (seems so basic now) to have other options for people to choose extra stuff at checkout like "cleaning ins…

As long as defaults are "honest" (i.e. not pre-selecting extras), sure. It's a balance though: it gets really tiring to go through pages and pages of upsell attempts whenever I buy a computer from certain vendors. The real trick, I think, is to take some of the minor elements people would expect without really thinking about it, and turn them into explicit extras. It devalues the base price a little, but the gains ar…

You also have to take into account the customer's psychology and not press them too hard. That is, they don't want to feel "nickel & dimed to death." Too many extras, and they may start to resent that these things weren't just included in the base package in the beginning. A load of extras thrown at them at the end can sometimes be declined (e.g. out of resentment, frustration, etc) when a higher price upfront that included those extras would've been happily paid.
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