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From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

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11–20 of 177 posts

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#11

It's a nice personal achievement, but I can't help myself cringing at business models of this kind. It's plain old extraction of surplus-value, adding very little to the economy as a whole. The workers would be better off operating as a cooperative, I wish they had the education to know that from the outset, and the means to implement it.

I'm not sure I completely agree. The clients get vetted cleaners; and even a cleaner coop would need someone to manage/assure quality/market, and someone with those skills can earn more than a cleaner.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#12

It's a nice personal achievement, but I can't help myself cringing at business models of this kind. It's plain old extraction of surplus-value, adding very little to the economy as a whole. The workers would be better off operating as a cooperative, I wish they had the education to know that from the outset, and the means to implement it.

I'm not sure I completely agree. The clients get vetted cleaners; and even a cleaner coop would need someone to manage/assure quality/market, and someone with those skills can earn more than a cleaner.

The cleaners are vetted/trained by one of themselves. Even if they have to hire a manager later on, he will be getting paid the worth of his contribution, not all of the profit.

I'm not so sure about it either, but I have a tendency to be a bit idealistic :)

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're unambiguously employees - classifying them as independent contractors is illegal, and both the IRS and their state's labor board will take violent exception to it. This isn't the only problem: the post would make a great issue spotter for an employment law class.

I haven't read every comment he's made yet, but skimmed many of them... Why can't they be contractors? He said they're providing their own transportation and supplies. So he's just handing them clients and appointments, and a checklist of cleaning tasks to complete and a few limitations on the supplies used. Isn't that analogous to handing a contracted software developer a requirements document and a deadline?

I don't know about the US, but over here if you have to follow orders, work under constant supervision or on the clock, you can't be classified as a contractor anymore (in theory).

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read every comment he's made yet, but skimmed many of them... Why can't they be contractors? He said they're providing their own transportation and supplies. So he's just handing them clients and appointments, and a checklist of cleaning tasks to complete and a few limitations on the supplies used. Isn't that analogous to handing a contracted software developer a requirements document and a deadline?

I don't know about the US, but over here if you have to follow orders, work under constant supervision or on the clock, you can't be classified as a contractor anymore (in theory).

I understand that, but the maids are not working under constant supervision or on the clock.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the US, but over here if you have to follow orders, work under constant supervision or on the clock, you can't be classified as a contractor anymore (in theory).

I understand that, but the maids are not working under constant supervision or on the clock.

They are working under the company's schedule, work guidelines and command. It's very subjective (for a layman), hopefully someone more versed in the area will clear this up.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I completely agree. The clients get vetted cleaners; and even a cleaner coop would need someone to manage/assure quality/market, and someone with those skills can earn more than a cleaner.

The cleaners are vetted/trained by one of themselves. Even if they have to hire a manager later on, he will be getting paid the worth of his contribution, not all of the profit. I'm not so sure about it either, but I have a tendency to be a bit idealistic :)

They don't have to take the surplus jobs he is finding them.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#17

From a business standpoint this is absolutely brilliant. Everyone should be doing this, doesn't matter if you're a SaaS or selling real-world goods & services. > 2) Having Extras at checkout. When we first started, you would checkout online and just order your home cleaning and pay. Then I had the brilliant idea (seems so basic now) to have other options for people to choose extra stuff at checkout like "cleaning ins…

As long as defaults are "honest" (i.e. not pre-selecting extras), sure. It's a balance though: it gets really tiring to go through pages and pages of upsell attempts whenever I buy a computer from certain vendors.

The real trick, I think, is to take some of the minor elements people would expect without really thinking about it, and turn them into explicit extras. It devalues the base price a little, but the gains are worth it in many cases (like here).

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're unambiguously employees - classifying them as independent contractors is illegal, and both the IRS and their state's labor board will take violent exception to it. This isn't the only problem: the post would make a great issue spotter for an employment law class.

I haven't read every comment he's made yet, but skimmed many of them... Why can't they be contractors? He said they're providing their own transportation and supplies. So he's just handing them clients and appointments, and a checklist of cleaning tasks to complete and a few limitations on the supplies used. Isn't that analogous to handing a contracted software developer a requirements document and a deadline?

You'd have to squint an awful lot for the evaluation to fall out that way. I'm a contracted software dev. I'm going to run down a list of questions from the IRS. Mentally score which ones sound like a cleaning laborer.

I have business cards, a personal website, and a professional reputation. My clients ask for me by name.

I do not submit applications. I do not respond to advertisements of employment.

I often have discretion to have work performed by subordinates selected and instructed by me, not my client.

I receive negligible training from customers.

My work is often evaluated by myself or not evaluated, because I am more competent as to the details than my clients are, this being why they hired me to do it. If there is a checklist, I wrote or had substantial input on the checklist.

I work at hours I pick or by mutual agreement. I routinely do not tell clients when I start or stop working.

If a problem arises with my work, I will ordinarily be the first person told about it.

The services I provide for my clients are largely not their main line of business. They do not invoice customers for my work directly. They generally have no employees who do substantially what I do, this being a major reason why they would hire me.

There is a written contract in place between me and each of my clients, often with contentious custom language in it.

I routinely incur expenses in the course of my business which are not reimbursed by clients.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#19
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're unambiguously employees - classifying them as independent contractors is illegal, and both the IRS and their state's labor board will take violent exception to it. This isn't the only problem: the post would make a great issue spotter for an employment law class.

I haven't read every comment he's made yet, but skimmed many of them... Why can't they be contractors? He said they're providing their own transportation and supplies. So he's just handing them clients and appointments, and a checklist of cleaning tasks to complete and a few limitations on the supplies used. Isn't that analogous to handing a contracted software developer a requirements document and a deadline?

It's possible if he does everything right. But the presumption by determining authorities seems to be in the 'employee' direction, so it's very easy to slip up.

Does he tell them when to work? Employee. How to do their work (a checklist)? Employee. Provide supplies? Employee. Do they wear a 'Maid In Black' uniform? Employee.

If he were a matching service, it might be easier. But, he's extending his brand/guarantee/monitoring over the service, so he may have to thread-a-needle to win any challenge that a regulator or (perhaps more likely) disgruntled contractor raises.

Re: From idea to replacing full-time salary in 4 months

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cleaners are vetted/trained by one of themselves. Even if they have to hire a manager later on, he will be getting paid the worth of his contribution, not all of the profit. I'm not so sure about it either, but I have a tendency to be a bit idealistic :)

They don't have to take the surplus jobs he is finding them.

I'm not sure in what way your comment is a reply to mine. That is the "little" I think it's adding to the economy (matching demand/offer), yet it's just a misbalance of information and/or power that shouldn't need to exist.
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